PLEASE stop telling summoners to use Ifrit!!!

[glim]

snip

where did you hear that ifrit benefits from all 3 blunt/piercing/slashing resistances?

// How many BRDs do you play with that actually cast the spell debuff song? Maybe if you have a BLM and SMN in your group but I rarely see that song up.
//

at least 90% of the bards I've played with uses foe requiem, and battlevoiced too, that's 20% increase instead of a 10% melee increase.

//You realize you're siding with someone that thinks spamming Ruin II is the way to go right? I'm not saying he/she is wrong but you may want to wait for more evidence.//

I'm siding with who? what makes you think I'm siding with anyone here, I'm critiquing both of you.

[Spythe]

I'm siding with who? what makes you think I'm siding with anyone here, I'm critiquing both of you.

From the grapevine, I'm don't even know if its true but if Ifrit benefits from 1 melee debuff he will be more damage than Garuda. The only test I've done have been on Titan where I used Ifrit for a run and Garuda for a run. Ifrit total was 25k dmg while Garuda was 20k now does Contagion make up for that difference? Don't know and we only had a MNK appealing the melee debuff. I just laugh at anyone dumb enough that thinks doing damage on a test dummy proves anything when it comes to pets.

I guess I don't run with enough BLMs but I don't play with any BRDs that use Foe Requiem but my Coil group is melee heavy with me being the caster so it makes sense.

I think me and you are on the same page where we are at least curious to fully test Ifrit before we claim he is bad and awful. I mean it makes a lot of sense to have a melee pet do more melee dmg with melee debuffs. While a caster pet does more caster dmg with a caster debuff.

People also forgot that Ifrit hits twice as much as Garuda so its more likely to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities which gives you a nice haste bonus. So the argument should be is that buff better than Contagion every minute, I think Contagion is amazing and great but a bit overrated.

[Xianghua]

From the grapevine, I'm don't even know if its true but if Ifrit benefits from 1 melee debuff he will be more damage than Garuda. The only test I've done have been on Titan where I used Ifrit for a run and Garuda for a run. Ifrit total was 25k dmg while Garuda was 20k now does Contagion make up for that difference? Don't know and we only had a MNK appealing the melee debuff. I just laugh at anyone dumb enough to doing damage on a parser proves anything when it comes to pets.

I guess I don't run with enough BLMs but I don't play with any BRDs that use Foe Requiem but my Coil group is melee heavy with me being the caster so it makes sense.

Ifrit does get a bonus from Dragon kick.

[glim]

snip

I could see ifrit doing more damage than garuda (with contagion) if all 3 physical resists apply to him (after some searching, I've also seen in a video that did say ifrit benefits from all 3 resists but im still gonna test it later)

my ifrit does 140+70 to 145+80 every 3 seconds. (on obey,more dps on sic)

while my garuda constantly does 198-210 every 3 seconds (on obey, less dps with sic)

on raw damage alone, without including contagion, ifrit wins in raw damage. (even though he doesn't scale with gear)

but if 3 debuffs does actually apply on ifrit (which I've also seen in a video) it's possible that ifrit will out dps garuda even with contagion (and btw, casting contagion costs garuda a a wind slash which cuts her off 200 something damage). and I've also heard that contagion isn't really as good as it seems, since you're basically just getting 4 free ruins.

plus that point you made about ifrit hitting twice = more crit chances.

[Spythe]

snip

Thank you, even if I'm completely wrong now we are at least having a convo instead IFRIT IS BAD HAHAHA ANY SMN THAT USES IFRIT IS BAD I TESTED IT ON A TEST DUMMY, IFRIT IS BAD.

Yeah people overrate the fuck out of Contagion but I like it due to the fact it gives me a bit more freedom on fights that require me to move a bit more. I think it may be possible to get off longer dots if for Raging Strikes if you double cast them. Apply 3 dots fester, thunder, apply 3 dots fester, instant cast Shadow Flare. You miss out on a few Ruins during that time but that is only 600-800 dmg.

I think having a higher chance to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities is better than Contagion in terms of raw DPS numbers but once again that would have to be tested. All the people claiming Ifrit is hard to keep up since he is melee..... I don't get it, I find Garuda a bit more annoying but I rarely have a pet die in combat unless there is a dot mechanic even then a few Sustains normally keeps them up.

Can I get a link to that youtube video you watched? I just read it from comments so far.

[xxalucard]

Thank you, even if I'm completely wrong now we are at least having a convo instead IFRIT IS BAD HAHAHA ANY SMN THAT USES IFRIT IS BAD I TESTED IT ON A TEST DUMMY, IFRIT IS BAD.

Hey I welcome a conversation, though it seems like you're saying the same thing as me (ifrit is bad).

I agree contagion is good for the reasons you mentioned as well, though it's tough to double cast them with thunder & get off 2 festers while under RS. But you may be right that choosing to double cast with raging strikes is a better choice if you're able to at least double cast 3 of them.

Also just a side note: Raging strikes has no effect on shadow flare (this is not to you, just in general). It also has no effect on pet attacks.


@glim

When factoring DPS you also need to keep in mind the time it takes for Ifrit to walk to each target, his higher risk of getting damaged, and the fact that he does burning strke every 4 seconds, not 3. It's not fair to just factor in contagion losing 1 wind blade-- that seems pretty biased to only include that.

[Spythe]

Hey I welcome a conversation, though it seems like you're saying the same thing as me (ifrit is bad).

Hmmm I never said Ifrit is bad I just think the pets are party dependent. And gonna have to check the Shadow Flare Raging Strikes thing, if that is true it wouldn't be too hard to double cast dots and get 2 fester off. But then again this is perfect situation where you don't have to move at all which can be rare in a few fights.

I love the SMN class but my only real issue is horrible target swap DPS for low HP targets like rock jails on Titan, with a good group I just ignore them.

Sidebar: My whole point in all this back and forth is don't pretend you know everything and anyone that got different results or doing something different than you is wrong. Hear that person out and test it then make your own judgement. The game is not even 2 months old so stuff is bound to change especially when people get more gear and experience and DPS meters get better(I think are wrong 90% of the time but they are a decent judge). I find it hard to believe the dots are accurate when dot dmg doesn't show up in your combat log.

[glim]

Can I get a link to that youtube video you watched? I just read it from comments so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diROOR4VZKg

somewhere in the video he mentions all 3 resistances affects ifrit.

[Kevee]

From the grapevine, I'm don't even know if its true but if Ifrit benefits from 1 melee debuff he will be more damage than Garuda.

No, because, you know, Foe Req.

Even if you don't have it, for whatever laughable reason, the debuff will be a ~13% DPS increase. Putting Ifrit right around 64 DPS.

Is 5 DPS worth Contagion? I doubt it.
Is 5 DPS worth having a melee pet? I doubt it.


Also, I can confirm Storm's Eye(Slashing Resistance) does not buff Ifrit, and that DK(blunt resistance) does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diROOR4VZKg

somewhere in the video he mentions all 3 resistances affects ifrit.

How did I know it would be Mr. Happy? I hate that guy. People put him on a pedestal and think he's the best, and knows everything.

He's a mediocre player that spreads mis-information to his fans.

[PessimiStick]

How did I know it would be Mr. Happy? I hate that guy. People put him on a pedestal and think he's the best, and knows everything.

He's a mediocre player that spreads mis-information to his fans.

Yeah, I can't watch his stuff because I always want to correct it. And he can't pronounce Amdapor correctly.