PLEASE stop telling summoners to use Ifrit!!!

[Kevee]

Ifrit need str to increase their damage output (unverified)

They scale off INT.

[Hachiko]

Hey all, it looks like the standard damage output from both pets is pretty close, even if garuda is ~2 dps higher than ifrit just on auto mode.

Then it looks like there are 2 things, Contagion and Enkindle. Contagion which gives Garuda a significant advantage, and enkindle which gives Ifrit a slight advantage but doesn't overtake contagion.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be worth it to start with Garuda, use Contagion for your raging strikes dots, then use Swiftcast to swap to Ifrit, so you can utilize his enkindle? Particularly if you have the dragon kick debuff?

Or is this not a strategy that is worth thinking about.

P.S. I don't play summoner, so tell me why this would or wouldn't be worth it or work.

P.P.S. I have a feeling Flaming Stikes from Ifrit would benefit from Foes requiem. But that's just a guess.

[azethoth]

Hey all, it looks like the standard damage output from both pets is pretty close, even if garuda is ~2 dps higher than ifrit just on auto mode.

Then it looks like there are 2 things, Contagion and Enkindle. Contagion which gives Garuda a significant advantage, and enkindle which gives Ifrit a slight advantage but doesn't overtake contagion.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be worth it to start with Garuda, use Contagion for your raging strikes dots, then use Swiftcast to swap to Ifrit, so you can utilize his enkindle? Particularly if you have the dragon kick debuff?

Or is this not a strategy that is worth thinking about.

P.S. I don't play summoner, so tell me why this would or wouldn't be worth it or work.

P.P.S. I have a feeling Flaming Stikes from Ifrit would benefit from Foes requiem. But that's just a guess.

Inferno is elemental based so would not benefit off of dragon kick. Burning strike is melee, no element attached for some reason so foes does not effect that but it should effect Inferno(Enkindle).
They both have their uses honestly. Defaulting to Garuda all the time may be better and work for some, but I personally hate micromanaging garuda for trash so I like Ifrit for that.

The only reason I could see why this wouldn't work is because summing ifrit just for that blows a GCD.

[lackofwords]

Just a few notes;
FFXIV APP parser places an average value to your DoTs. This is because the true value does not show up in any text logs, which is why it doesn't track the extensions nor shadow flare damage.
E.G. Each Bio tick is valued as 89 damage for FFXIV APP regardless if your actual DoT tick damage is higher.
Your DoTs can also have critical damage ticks, which will not be recorded in the parser.

Contagion adds 15 secs to any active Bio, Bio II, Miasma, or Miasma II, [and Thunder]. Each tick for damage for any DoT is 3 seconds, though sometimes you'll occasionally lose one tick. So essentially you're adding 5 extra damage ticks per active DoT.
E.G. Extending Bio with Contagion is equivalent to shooting out 2.5 Ruins, and not taking into consideration any additional buffs/debuffs. (Bio is 40 potency per tick, Ruin is 80 potency per shot).

Egi Garuda's basic attack 'Wind Blade' is 100 potency, Egi Ifrit's basic attack 'Burning Strike' is 120 potency. Even though Ifrit has a hidden extra second totaling its basic attack to roughly 4 seconds, it'll still deal a tad bit more damage to Garuda's 4 seconds 'Wind Blade'. Again, this is not taking any external buffs/debuffs into account.

[Spythe]

Egi Garuda's basic attack 'Wind Blade' is 100 potency, Egi Ifrit's basic attack 'Burning Strike' is 120 potency. Even though Ifrit has a hidden extra second totaling its basic attack to roughly 4 seconds, it'll still deal a tad bit more damage to Garuda's 4 seconds 'Wind Blade'. Again, this is not taking any external buffs/debuffs into account.

Garuda

Wind Blade - 191 - 205, 1sec cast/3sec recast
Aerial Slash - 172 - 189, 3sec cast, the cooldown starts as soon as she starts casting.

while

All instant

Ifrit Burning Strike hits for about 135-145 +70-75 auto attack.
Burning Strikes - 121, 118, 125, 166
Crimson Cyclone - 120, 115, 116

my SMN is +1 and 4 allagan pieces/darklight/2 star crafted gear now.

With Sic on their DPS output is pretty much identical, have parsers of a Titan fights to prove it. However with Obey up Garuda does a bit more than Ifrit about 5 to 10 more DPS. Garuda is pretty much the go to pet in most situations, the only time Ifrit may out damage Garuda is with a MNK in the group for DK debuff.

With all that said use whatever you think for 4 mans but in harder content stick with Garuda.

The argument shouldn't be able Contagion v Enkindle, it should be about Enhanced Pet Abilities vs Contagion. Ifrit has close to twice the chance to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities over Garuda since he has an auto attack.

[lackofwords]

Garuda

Wind Blade - 191 - 205, 1sec cast/3sec recast
Aerial Slash - 172 - 189, 3sec cast, the cooldown starts as soon as she starts casting.

while

All instant

Ifrit Burning Strike hits for about 135-145 +70-75 auto attack.
Burning Strikes - 121, 118, 125, 166
Crimson Cyclone - 120, 115, 116

my SMN is +1 and 4 allagan pieces/darklight/2 star crafted gear now.

With Sic on their DPS output is pretty much identical, have parsers of a Titan fights to prove it. However with Obey up Garuda does a bit more than Ifrit about 5 to 10 more DPS. Garuda is pretty much the go to pet in most situations, the only time Ifrit may out damage Garuda is with a MNK in the group for DK debuff.

With all that said use whatever you think for 4 mans but in harder content stick with Garuda.

The argument shouldn't be able Contagion v Enkindle, it should be about Enhanced Pet Abilities vs Contagion. Ifrit has close to twice the chance to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities over Garuda since he has an auto attack.

I'm not sure what counterpoint you're trying to make by pulling in your Titan parser.
If you've compared your raw numbers of Wind Blade 191~205 to Burning Strikes (sum of two attacks 205~220), that raw number just reaffirms what I've said for raw damage without any buffs or debuffs.
My point was that Ifrit potency is higher. That is a constant.

The follow-up question, which would be regarding your Titan parser, is the situation that would make the damage output difference.
Some examples;
If enemy target is moving or stationary.
If there are more than one enemy target.
If there are certain buffs or debuffs.
If the enemy uses high damage AoE.
and so on.

Ifrit's 120 potency is the sum of his two attacks. The two attacks gives you more chances of getting the Spell Speed increase and pet crit hits.
Though, I'm not all too convince that spell speed buff is a game changer, nor would raw damage be.

[Spythe]

I'm not sure what counterpoint you're trying to make by pulling in your Titan parser.
If you've compared your raw numbers of Wind Blade 191~205 to Burning Strikes (sum of two attacks 205~220), that raw number just reaffirms what I've said for raw damage without any buffs or debuffs.
My point was that Ifrit potency is higher. That is a constant.

Ifrit has higher potency but does less damage(per attack but the same overall damage) because he is melee and effected by mobs armor.

still no, let's say ifrit hits 215 damage every 4 seconds (autoattack + burning strike), that's 3225 damage per minute + 10% monk debuff = 3547, 2 flaming crush and 1 crimson cyclone, (115 each x3 then add 10% = 379) 3926 damage per minute.

I believe DK adds about 13% damage on attacks. Once again I'm not sure until I test it, figured someone else would of tested it by now. Ifrit does his auto attack more than just when burning strikes goes off so your napkin math is a bit off. You also forgetting to add his stun and AOE. There damage is pretty similar when Ifrit is on Sic and Garuda is on Obey. I still stand by my play with whatever pet you want up until the coil, but once you're in the Coil. Garuda is hands down the best pet since sooo many bosses have unfriendly melee moves.

Once again the argument shouldn't be who does the best raw DPS but whatever Contagion is better than Enhanced Pet Abilities. I would say Contagion is better atm so use Garuda, I still use Ifrit when I feel like being lazy on easy content/non coil.

[glim]

snip

if you read my message, I did value in his stun and aoe, didn't you see? flaming crush and crimson cyclone.

ok autoattacks 75 x 20 = 1500

burning strikes 145 x 15 = 2175

2 crushes and 1 cyclone = 379
+10% monk debuff

4459 damage per minute.

garuda 4100 damage per minute, non-raging strikes contagion 600-800 damage (3-4 ruin gcd). 4700-4900 damage per minute.

enhanced pet abilities, ifrit does 38 attacks per minute. garuda does 20. I have 515 crit chance, 341 (base 5% crit) and 174 crit from items (12.7% crit assuming 13.7 points is 1% crit) 17.7% crit chance total. assuming pet's crit chance reflects on the summoner's stats, ifrit has 17.7% chance to crit, meaning 3 out of 18 free attacks of ifrit will crit. enhanced pet abilities is 20% chance to proc on crits. 3 extra crits average per minute is 60% chance, enhanced pet abilities gives me 85 spellspeed, 60% of 85 is 51 for 8 seconds every minute, which averages to 6.8 spellspeed entirely.

6.8 spellspeed is negligible and won't compare to garuda's non-raging strikes 400 damage over an ifrit with monk debuff.


(someone correct me please if I missed something while averaging the spellspeed of enhanced pet abilities)

[glim]

the only time Ifrit may out damage Garuda is with a MNK in the group for DK debuff.

still no, let's say ifrit hits 215 damage every 4 seconds (autoattack + burning strike), that's 3225 damage per minute + 10% monk debuff = 3547, 2 flaming crush and 1 crimson cyclone, (115 each x3 then add 10% = 379) 3926 damage per minute.

garuda, let's say she hits 205 damage every 3 seconds, that's 4100 damage per minute.

[BrodyAlgana]

Demon wall, im pretty lazy, I just spam Medica 1 or 2 as needed till we win I don't pay attention to what others are doing, usually I don't even remember an AK run when it is over, its gotten so boring.