PLEASE stop telling summoners to use Ifrit!!!

[Kevee]

The worst part is when you get in a group with another summoner, ask them to switch to Garuda and xplain why, and watch them ignore you and keep Ifrit on the target, and not even on obey so he doesn't waste GCDs on his other crappy skills instead of autoattacking.

Ifrit does more DPS on Sic, rather than Obey.

[Kevee]

I do it.

Especially on turn 4 after you bane your DoTs to both knights and must focus the soldiers down, and especially on the strict DPS check of the dreadnought right after. During regular dungeon runs there is no real reason NOT to spam ruin II (in the break between setting your Dots and waiting on a new Aetherflow stack) unless you are already somehow getting low on MP. Of course, you spam it less depending on MP and other CD's / Pet CD's coming up, but not using it at all...is...well...worse DPS for no reason.

You know ruin and ruin II take the same GCD, right? Don't be using Ruin II unless you can't use Ruin. If a mob is at 50%, say the Soldier or Dreadnought, there is no reason to use Ruin II over Ruin. The only time to, maybe, use Ruin II is sub-10% since the damage comes earlier than Ruin, and that's only if you aren't confident in your group.


..There is a real reason. Are you putting thunder on each target? Miasma II? If you're doing optimal AoE DPS, you bleed dry fast. Definitely don't use Ruin II unless necessary. DoT + Bane/Contagion -> Shadow Flare -> Thunder each target if under 4 targets -> Miasma II -> Spam Ruin or Tri-Disaster if over 4 targets.

If there's 4+ Targets do Miasma II before Thunder, and use Tri-Disaster.

[xxalucard]

You know ruin and ruin II take the same GCD, right? Don't be using Ruin II unless you can't use Ruin. If a mob is at 50%, say the Soldier or Dreadnought, there is no reason to use Ruin II over Ruin. The only time to, maybe, use Ruin II is sub-10% since the damage comes earlier than Ruin, and that's only if you aren't confident in your group.


..There is a real reason. Are you putting thunder on each target? Miasma II? If you're doing optimal AoE DPS, you bleed dry fast. Definitely don't use Ruin II unless necessary. DoT + Bane/Contagion -> Shadow Flare -> Thunder each target if under 4 targets -> Miasma II -> Spam Ruin or Tri-Disaster if over 4 targets.

If there's 4+ Targets do Miasma II before Thunder, and use Tri-Disaster.

I have yet to see why you wouldn't use ruin II. I have a few seconds after putting all DoTs (this includes shadow flare, thunder, and even crappy miasma II, like you mentioned) where there's nothing left to cast-- and you can cast ruin II faster than ruin, thus faster damage. MP is never an issue on summoner and I don't see how you could run out so quickly where you'd actually use RUIN over ruin 2. RUIN II is faster damage... it's instant cast: this means more DPS than slow ruin.

[Xianghua]

I have yet to see why you wouldn't use ruin II. I have a few seconds after putting all DoTs (this includes shadow flare, thunder, and even crappy miasma II, like you mentioned) where there's nothing left to cast-- and you can cast ruin II faster than ruin, thus faster damage. MP is never an issue on summoner and I don't see how you could run out so quickly where you'd actually use RUIN over ruin 2. RUIN II is faster damage... it's instant cast: this means more DPS than slow ruin.

Ruin 2 and Ruin do the exact same damage. it may seem to cast faster due to being an instant cast. However it still does the same damage over the same time frame due to them both being on the GCD. It just appears faster. But Its not.

[glim]

MP is never an issue on summoner

really now.

EDIT: it literally took me exactly a minute and fifty seconds for me to oom using a RUIN II spam rotation instead of the RUIN II + RUIN I rotation.

[Spythe]

LMAO people thinking they know shit but at the end of the day they don't know shit. Testing Ifrit on a parser means nothing since he gets benefits from all the melee debuffs. Melee heavy group use Ifrit, if not use Garuda its that simple. People thinking they have the entire game figured out within a month after release. People all think parsers are the end all be all of dmg output. Once again

IFRIT BENEFITS FROM MELEE DEBUFFS SO IN A MELEE HEAVY GROUP IFRIT IS MORE RAW DMG

GARUDA IS BETTER IN NON MELEE HEAVY GROUPS

Contagion utility is a completely different conversion.

STFU with test dummy resaults because it literally means nothing since you're rarely alone DPS a target down.

LMAO so you made a thread calling other people bad because of miss information and now trying to justify spamming Ruin II instead of 1..... If you're spamming Ruin II AND not running out of mana you're playing the SMN horrible wrong. If I forgot to cast Aetherflow for whatever reason I run out of mana fairly quick. Please no new SMN take this thread seriously just bad information all around.

[glim]

^what melee debuffs? I only know one and you speak as if theres lots of them, it's called disembowel pierce resist or blunt resist (the pet can only benefit from one since it cannot be both piercing and blunting) , and we're not even sure yet if it only increases his auto attacks and not his spell attacks. not to mention having a bard in the group and garuda gets the same debuff.

but even then, with having no bard in the group and having a disemboweler, do you honestly think this will beat garuda and contagion?

not to mention garuda grows stronger the more int you get, her damage scales with your gear, ifrit doesn't scale shit and probably scales off STR.


so much for this

LMAO people thinking they know shit but at the end of the day they don't know shit.

[Spythe]

so much for this

You really think there is only 1 melee debuff? There is 3 one from a MNK(Dragon Kick), one from DRG(Dissemble), and one from a WAR(Storm's Eye). I've heard Ifrit benefits from all 3 but not 100% and have yet to test it. How many BRDs do you play with that actually cast the spell debuff song? Maybe if you have a BLM and SMN in your group but I rarely see that song up.

I just think people claiming its been proven because they tested it on parser is pretty comical. You realize you're siding with someone that thinks spamming Ruin II is the way to go right? I'm not saying he/she is wrong but you may want to wait for more evidence.

[Gukster]

^what melee debuffs? I only know one and you speak as if theres lots of them, it's called disembowel pierce resist or blunt resist (the pet can only benefit from one since it cannot be both piercing and blunting) , and we're not even sure yet if it only increases his auto attacks and not his spell attacks. not to mention having a bard in the group and garuda gets the same debuff.

but even then, with having no bard in the group and having a disemboweler, do you honestly think this will beat garuda and contagion?

not to mention garuda grows stronger the more int you get, her damage scales with your gear, ifrit doesn't scale shit and probably scales off STR.


so much for this

No idea about SMN, I just wanted some info because I am leveling, but MNK's "Dragon Kick" lowers blunt resistance.

[glim]

snip

where did you hear that ifrit benefits from all 3 blunt/piercing/slashing resistances?

// How many BRDs do you play with that actually cast the spell debuff song? Maybe if you have a BLM and SMN in your group but I rarely see that song up.
//

at least 90% of the bards I've played with uses foe requiem, and battlevoiced too, that's 20% increase instead of a 10% melee increase.

//You realize you're siding with someone that thinks spamming Ruin II is the way to go right? I'm not saying he/she is wrong but you may want to wait for more evidence.//

I'm siding with who? what makes you think I'm siding with anyone here, I'm critiquing both of you.