DPS calculation for dungeons

[Zoalord]

You dont need DL or Garuda weapon for Titan,

I have beaten Titan with a party that only have AK gear/Ifrit(DDs) weapon and some GC(Healers) weapon,
During Heart phase we have 3 LB bar and 2 DPS used status potion, everyone eat their food before the fight, took us 2 times to beat it.

It is possible, but maybe a little longer fight, with DL/Garuda weapon does make the fight faster/easier, but still, if your team mate doesnt know what they are doing, even tho they have decent gear, still end up losing.


My point of this thread is, that, some players judge you based on your DPS, which is not fair.

[ispano]

My point of this thread is, that, some players judge you based on your DPS, which is not fair.

Except it IS fair. If you're there to do DPS, you shouldn't be judged on it? That's WHY you're there. There are always exceptions, the person who has to watch for interrupts and the like, but otherwise, that's what a DPS class does. DPS.

[Zoalord]

You are right on that,
but DPS is really depending on different dungeons/events

For Titan as example, BLM can have lower DPS sometimes due to there are so many things you have to dodge during the fight, and Bard can have the higher damage because they can attack from anywhere during the battle and while dodging the moves.


my intention of this post was based on, dont judge someone based on their gear/dps, some fights are situational, so it really depends on player's skill instead of their gear.
if a player with godly gear but doesnt have the skill, it is slowing down the team. Dead man has no DPS

I was in a Titan fight once and my LS mate accused me for having only AK gear with Ifrit weapon +30 VIT status is a dead weight,and saying that I wont be able to do 60% of another Monk's damage (fully geared with DL and Relic)
but but they all died on the second wave after the heart phase because they dont know how to run away from the moves excepted me

[ispano]

No, Titan most certainly is a check of sorts. It's the gateway to even being able to do Coil. It's meant to see if you are up to snuff to move on to the harder things. And like someone else said before, skill can make up for lack of gear, but ONLY so far. Skill is what exploits your gear. You need both. A good player will get better gear when and where he can, before doing something he is not ready for.

[Zoalord]

I agree with you up to certain points only,

Yes, Titan is a semi gear check, but it can still be done by GC/AK gear, if you and your team know how to fight it properly.

DPS is an issue for Titan's heart, we all know that, but there is a thing call Limit Break, if you team is short on DPS because of the gear, get the Limit Break bar to 3, if the team still cant break it, one of the WHM will have to help nuking it as well (with holy)

if the team still cant beat it, then the team will have to upgrade the gear to gain more damage. (or maybe the DD is doing something wrong)

as I mentioned before, Coil of Bahamut is the current end game, therefore it is require high end gear for it.

I am not trying to argue here, all I am saying is that everyone should enjoy the game instead of getting "abandon" by others due to their gear.

[ispano]

See that's part of the problem. I see many groups try to rely on LB for heart, and for sure it helps, and is good to have depending on who gets Gaoled. But if you rely on it and lack DPS, the last phase is hell on healers because it lasts too long.

Also the other mistake people make is thinking Titan isn't part of "end game". Like I said before, it's meant as a gate to Coil. Not something completely independent. Otherwise Coil wouldn't require it. The mechanics of Titan are your basic end game mechanics.

As for your abandoned comment. People wouldn't feel abandoned if they played with people like them. Or if they tried to get close to the best gear they can before doing higher end content. The problem isn't people being abandoned, it's different mentalities clashing. And in some cases, one group wanting what the other group has without doing the same work for it. I've seen people try to do Titan in AF and White everything else. I tell them they should get better gear, and they say that's why they are here. They are trying to bypass the gearing up phase completely.

[Trihuuger]

Damage meters get a terrible rep from these "mouth breathers" as someone so eloquently stated. Parsers, in my humble opinion, ought to be used competitively both in terms of personal growth to sure up rotations and/or that desire to be "the best" and compete amongst equally skilled players. People that use them in pick-up groups and feel the need to inform their party members of their "lack" of play probably still live in their parents' house with self-esteem issues. I mean... Anyone that joins a pick-up with the mindset of having competition therein really has some self-reflection to do. Anyone thinking they're "helping" in these situations is fooling themselves as players who would use that information constructively likely already have parsers to begin with.

It is a shame.

[ispano]

Damage meters get a terrible rep from these "mouth breathers" as someone so eloquently stated. Parsers, in my humble opinion, ought to be used competitively both in terms of personal growth to sure up rotations and/or that desire to be "the best" and compete amongst equally skilled players. People that use them in pick-up groups and feel the need to inform their party members of their "lack" of play probably still live in their parents' house with self-esteem issues. I mean... Anyone that joins a pick-up with the mindset of having competition therein really has some self-reflection to do. Anyone thinking they're "helping" in these situations is fooling themselves as players who would use that information constructively likely already have parsers to begin with.

It is a shame.

The only time I would bring up DPS numbers in a pug is if we obviously lack DPS, but the DPS are adamant it's not their problem and what have you. Situations for example, like Titan in DF. You have two tanks. I've been running it on Warrior lately and when a decently geared Paladin is there, it's better than he tanks. And a majority of the time, i'm outdoing the DPS. And again, I will normally keep it to myself unless things like I mentioned happened. Had one DD badmouthing another DD for weak gear(It was actually not half bad) yet he wasn't even beating me as a Warrior, but the one he was badmouthing was. And of course, with the current state of things, any class' DPS that uses any form of DoT should be taken with a grain of salt, but when the gap is large it's still a decent guideline.

[Trihuuger]

The only time I would bring up DPS numbers in a pug is if we obviously lack DPS, but the DPS are adamant it's not their problem and what have you. Situations for example, like Titan in DF. You have two tanks. I've been running it on Warrior lately and when a decently geared Paladin is there, it's better than he tanks. And a majority of the time, i'm outdoing the DPS. And again, I will normally keep it to myself unless things like I mentioned happened. Had one DD badmouthing another DD forweak gear(It was actually not half bad) yet he wasn't even beating me as a Warrior, but the one he was badmouthing was. And of course, with the current state of things, any class' DPS that uses any form of DoT should be taken with a grain of salt, but when the gap is large it's still a decent guideline.

I'm terribly sorry if you took my statement as an attack of any sort. That was not my intention. It was solely in regards to the OP's "prickish" version of people using DPS charts to simply e-peen. I completely understand where you're coming from as well, and truthfully try to steer as clear as I can from pick-up's/duty finder parties for that reason.

[Leonas]

We all had to do AK with Welfare AF gear and 44 GC weapons. You didn't START geared yourselves. Remember that.

Anyone who complains about people geared equivilant to this in the Duty Finder for AK/WP/Ifrit needs to really grow up. You REQUIRE people to get fully decked in Full ilvl60+? Well make a party before you enter the dungeon then? I don't see the problem here.

EDIT: This is coming from a MNK with full darklight and relic weapon. Wife runs a PLD with AF2+Allaghan and a couple of DL pieces and her relic. Honestly. Who cares if someone " only " has entry level equipment equivilant for that dungeon. We never complain about someone else's gear. We'll make pointers like, " You should esuna that disease." or " You should stand over here. " etc. But whine about gear? Apparently people are pro enough to require speed runs, but not pro enough to carry effectively. :P