Warrior is OP

[Nero]

Yeah, bro. It's really silly for people to use math to compare things that are governed by math. Like, totally.

Interesting how people who go by "math" dont really consider the self-healing into their calculation. So you "Math Pros" explain me why Bloodbath, Inner Beast, Second Wind, Convalescence, Foresight ( not healing but defense ), Storms Path Combo, being Infuriated does not exist for your ways of putting a calculation together.

[Machazareel]

Interesting how people who go by "math" dont really consider the self-healing into their calculation. So you "Math Pros" explain me why Bloodbath, Inner Beast, Second Wind, Convalescence, Foresight ( not healing but defense ), Storms Path Combo, being Infuriated does not exist for your ways of putting a calculation together.

If you want to bring cooldowns into it, then PLD only pulls ahead more.

[Nero]

If you want to bring cooldowns into it, then PLD only pulls ahead more.

That is the point, you need to bring ALL Factors into a calculation and not only those which fit your personal opinion. And now i am getting curious how PLD pulls ahead even more?! Go ahead and explain it and please provide some numbers and not only Stuff like:

"I am right cause i say so".

[Ryuni]

I understand from this thread that the person reality_check needs a reality check on how tanks and healing works in MMOs.

That is the point, you need to bring ALL Factors into a calculation and not only those which fit your personal opinion. And now i am getting curious how PLD pulls ahead even more?! Go ahead and explain it and please provide some numbers and not only Stuff like:

"I am right cause i say so".

It goes both ways, if you can't prove that WAR cooldowns are better than PLD, then you're stuck in your discussion and might as well leave out all cooldowns. Which people are already doing.

[Nero]

It goes both ways, if you can't prove that WAR cooldowns are better than PLD, then you're stuck in your discussion and might as well leave out all cooldowns. Which people are already doing.

I never said one is better than the other, did i? I play both and do have my opinion, but i am not going to throw sentences like "WAR is OP", "PLD is OP" if i can't proof it. I just pointed out that people leave out factors on the WAR Side ( self heals ), when they do consider the Defense Buffs from PLD, while both factors are essential for the play-style of the Class.

[seekerofpower]

All I know is this, the main tank of my FC is a War. He is better than any PLD I have ever been grouped with. Even as a SCH, I have an easier time keeping him up than most PLDs. Not to say that means WAR are better, but it does mean that a well played WAR is better than most PLDs out there.

[Hachiko]

I never said one is better than the other, did i? I play both and do have my opinion, but i am not going to throw sentences like "WAR is OP", "PLD is OP" if i can't proof it.I just pointed out that people leave out factors on the WAR Side ( self heals ), when they do consider the Defense Buffs from PLD, while both factors are essential for the play-style of the Class.

I've done a lot of the math on this.

Here is a post about the baseline stuff, essentially comparing EHP and Shield Oath to Defiance and Inner Beast: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...PLD-comparison

This post has the math about cooldowns: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1367676

Neither post takes into account Rage of Halone STR debuff or Block, which both obviously favor the paladin. Also worth mentioning that WAR is more likely to be crit due to how the hit tables work in this game.

Other people have made other mathematical models too. Most of them are pretty close to each other though we might vary due to different assumptions made (e.g. different DPS for the tank, different incoming dps levels, etc.)

[CSX]

Fastest AK run I've ever had was 94m!

WAR, SMN, SMN and me! (SCH), Selene was the healer! hehe I never left Cleric Stance. It was sooo awesome! All 3 of us were bane'ing the sets of three mobs, throwing down our Circle Slow thingy, dotting like it's no bodies business! I would run ahead and pull stuff for the heck of it maan it was so awesome! It was a JP group though. . .not sure if EN players can handle the level of awesomeness hahaha (just kidding don't kill me >_<)

Oh right! WAR! >_< uhem. . . Maan that WAR was soooo OP! Selene was healing him like a boss, I. . . I think I only had to heal him like. . .3 or 4 times and leech him of course hehe XD

[Tronic]

So you "Math Pros" explain me why Bloodbath, Inner Beast, Second Wind, Convalescence, Foresight ( not healing but defense ), Storms Path Combo, being Infuriated does not exist for your ways of putting a calculation together.

Bloodbath: will heal you the equivalent of a cure 1, maybe. Over 30 seconds. Laughable.
Inner Beast: great when tanking irrelevant content. In Coil you can use it once every minute, or when trying to avoid imminent death (at the cost of +heal from wrath, which is greater).
Second Wind: even more laughable than bloodbath.
Convalescence: The only somewhat decent defensive CD we have aside from ToB, and it's cross classed. LOL.
Storm's Path combo: High TP cost for ~100 healed, perhaps once every third rotation. Useless.

I'd take Rampart, Sentinel and Hallowed Ground over those 6 any day.

[Ryios]

War becomes more viable the better the gear they get. The more HP a war has at the base, the more Defiance boosts them and the more effective stoneskin becomes. So while in Darklight... yeah pld can outshine them. But throw a war in AF2 with over 8kHP in defiance and suddenly stoneskin blocks an entire ability from a boss with eye for an eye up and warriors in said AF2 can get back 2500-3000 health on an inner beast and pop off two of them in a row.

Personally, I think a good trick would be to run a PLD and a War and Have the PLD stoneskin the war so healers can keep healing. Warrior doesn't have hate issues and pld would get a crap ton of enimity from SS'ing the warrior.

I also think that win Ninja comes out warrior will get a new cross class ability that will help alot. Imagine if a warrior could put up shadows FFXI style. If they could do that, they would be awesome, high health, and the ability to completely evade some dmg.