[Dragoons] Should be spamming AoEs for max DPS

[ShinigamiB06]

Since I haven't found this discussion anywhere, so I figured i'd go ahead and get it started here. Anyways, I believe that Dragoons should be spamming Spike doom in dungeons when faced against 3 or more mobs And this goes a bit past opinion since I have the numbers to support that Dragoons do more damage this way. Here are the numbers:

in order to facilitate understanding the numbers, I am going to use a common denominator of casting a skill three times, or a 3-part combo once. for the case of DoTs I will idealize this and include the potency damage in the total damage calculations. I will also exclude buffs in the calculations since buffs affect all skills equally

Doom Spike (hitting 3 enemies): potency 160 x 3 = 480 ; in 7.5 seconds potency = 1440

TrueThrust/VorpalThrust/FullThrust: potency = 650 ; in 7.5 seconds potency = 650

ImpulseDrive/Disembowel/ChaosThrust: potency = 760; in 7.5 seconds = 760

Phlebotomize: potency = 290 ; in 7.5 seconds potency = 870

Furthermore, these 3 part rotations can be interrupted by an aoe and thus you have to restart the rotation and your damaged just got hindered. where as doom spike has no combo rotation and can just be spammed.

To further this, if you combine Doom Spike with all the buffs at your disposal, you will do some serious damage.

And just to counter the argument that killings mobs will take longer, I will say that is wrong. Yes, in a group of three mobs, it will take longer to kill the *first* mob. But the total time it takes to kill all *three* mobs will be reduced. Bottom line, this is the essence of a speed run. To maximize doing damage to the mob group as a whole as opposed to a single target.

[ShinigamiB06]

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[silentwindfr]

err i'm maybe stupide but:

- ImpulseDrive/Disembowel/ChaosThrust: potency = 760; in 7.5 seconds = 760
this part is wrong, since you stop the count at 7.5, the potency is 560 = 180+220+160

- Phlebotomize: potency = 290 ; in 7.5 seconds potency = 870
this one is false too, since you only take in account 7.5 seconds. i invite you to test the skill on dummy, you will have surprise about the dot damage, and that the same for chaos thrust.

other point you forget to take in account the tp consumption.

- doomspike per skill cost 160 tp, 480 tp for 7.5 seconds.
- TrueThrust/VorpalThrust/FullThrust: 70/60/60, 190 tp for 7.5 seconds.
- ImpulseDrive/Disembowel/ChaosThrust: 70/60/60, 190 tp for 7.5 seconds.


some data about Phlebotomize:
- without buff, per tick 25 damage.
- with heavy thrust+disembowerl on, per tick 26 damage.
- with full buff (internal release+blood for blood+ heavy trust+disembowel), per tick 35 damage.

let's do the same for chaos thrust:
- without buff, per tick 24-26 damage
- with heavy thrust+disembowerl on, per tick 26-28
- with full buff (internal release+blood for blood+ heavy trust+disembowel), per tick 34-37 damage.

all the test was done with gael bolg+1 and almost full DL exept the head and pants (AK part) and a neck ilevel of craft 55 HQ, all of this on dummy 50. all damage are not critical indeed.

the damage are pitifull....

[ChaozK]

The problem i see with that, is that you run out of TP after 6-7 uses. Even if the mobs are dead after that, you would have to wait a bit to between the battles to refill your TP completely, not to forget that the dps of the flash spamming tank would be lower as well.

[ShinigamiB06]

err i'm maybe stupide but:

- ImpulseDrive/Disembowel/ChaosThrust: potency = 760; in 7.5 seconds = 760
this part is wrong, since you stop the count at 7.5, the potency is 560 = 180+220+160
i wrote above that i would include the damage over time in the calculations just to idealize the scenario. if you add the DoT, you will get 760 not 560
- Phlebotomize: potency = 290 ; in 7.5 seconds potency = 870
this one is false too, since you only take in account 7.5 seconds. i invite you to test the skill on dummy, you will have surprise about the dot damage, and that the same for chaos thrust.
same as above. i calculated the number with the entire DoT

The point is that even with the DoT fully calculated it still doesnt even come close to the damage from doom spike when hitting multiple enemies.

[ShinigamiB06]

The problem i see with that, is that you run out of TP after 6-7 uses. Even if the mobs are dead after that, you would have to wait a bit to between the battles to refill your TP completely, not to forget that the dps of the flash spamming tank would be lower as well.

Yes, using doom spike is the only real time when you run out of TP. But, after you run out the first you simply use invigorate. And by then hopefully the first of the three mobs has gone down. So now you should be switching over to your normal dragoon skill rotation.

As a DPS it is your duty to regulate your TP usage. But if you are not fully using your TP, you are not using you dragoon to its full potential

[Darwyn_Ulondarr]

And just to counter the argument that killings mobs will take longer, I will say that is wrong. Yes, in a group of three mobs, it will take longer to kill the *first* mob. But the total time it takes to kill all *three* mobs will be reduced. Bottom line, this is the essence of a speed run. To maximize doing damage to the mob group as a whole as opposed to a single target.

I like your point, and I think it's logical. TP concerns could be mitigated to a degree by bringing along a Bard and having them employ Army's Paeon. Though, this will reduce their damage by 20% and only last as long as their mana reserve lasts. Worth experimenting with further, though.

[silentwindfr]

on short duration of 7.5 yeah, but on longer duration is not valid, especially since with a good stuff with blood for blood you will hit in critical at 450 per target , monster will have more hp. you will be able to substain this dps for 15 second, 17.5 at max. (more if your use invigorate)

[ShinigamiB06]

Bump.

i want to hear more peoples thoughts on this because i keep getting bitched at instances even thought i know for a fact my over damage output is much higher like this...

[KrayZee]

during your everyday dungeon runs with a solid, well equipped group, AoE is the way to go, that.... should be obvious?
if you are going single target, while your BLMs/WHMs go for AoE you are wasting time and make things harder for the tank if you ask me