[Dev1001] Strategy or Exploit

[Mortikhan]

Perhaps this has already been addressed so I will be brief.

I would like a definitive call from the devs and some feedback from the community on purposely failing battle leves so they will stay in your journal for the following leve reset cycle. I have come across quite a few people who have been getting all of the same leves in common, stacking those leves, killing all but the last mob and then returning to the aetheryte to abandon the leve.

Apparently this allows you to keep the SP you earned but counts as a failed leve. Square Enix changed the manner in which this was handled awhile back in a patch due to frequent DCs so that failed leves could be repeated the following reset because people were losing Faction Points they earned and not having a fair shot at getting the reward they wanted.

So the question is....is this a good strategy or a loop-hole exploit? My personal view is that leves have rewards for a reason, to be completed. So auto-failing a leve is something I don't do. I have just been hearing from incoming members to our LS about it and have seen it employed quite often so would like to see it addressed one way or the other.

PS- Not really sure about the Dev tagging system here so not sure if I am addressing the right person or not.

[VydarrTyr]

This has been addressed many, many times. Here's a link to one thread, with Alexia talking about the official response. (link in text)

Essentially, failing leves is not an exploit. The devs have said that it's ok because you have to accept a trade-off. You can intentionally fail the leves to max out your SP, but you won't get the leve rewards and faction points.

I know some people who refuse to fail leves out of principle, some people who want the faction points/leve rewards, and some people who have not completed a leve in months. Personally, I'm fine with whatever players want to do. As long as it doesn't hurt my gameplay, let players do what they want.

[Mortikhan]

I can't say I am surprised, just disappointed. Oh well, thank you though for the clarification Vydarr.

[JayvirDeforte]

I still disagree with this heavily. Intended or not, it's not very hero-like. And why can't the local leves be the same way then? IMO, the leve should just disappear from the journal when it is completed or failed/abandoned. Dont even try to pull the D/C card because you know thats not the reason why you support it.

[VydarrTyr]

And why can't the local leves be the same way then?

Local leves are the same way. Lots of players decide not to run for 45 minutes to 3 different camps -- or use 16 anima -- to turn their leves in to the appropriate NPC. So they just make all the requested goods to get all the SP possible, and then don't turn them in. When the leves reset, they pick up an entirely new set of local leves without completing their old ones. Again, they don't get the gil or guild points, but they get the SP.

Maybe that's not "heroic" crafting, but probably the enduring lesson of MMOs is that players will do anything to get themselves the most XP in the least amount of time possible.

Of course, Yoshi-P's latest letter discusses "balancing" guild leve rewards. So it's possible that the whole "failing leves" issue will be resolved by making all leves give the same amount of SP. We'll have to wait and see what they decide, though.

[Viridiana]

Can we sticky this, so it stops getting asked?

[Mortikhan]

Local leves are the same way.

1) I am not sure about this...I had a Bluefog leve I had to turn in a long while back but I could not reach there. I do not recall being able to overwrite it with another leve. Like I said though...I am not sure about that. You could however complete up to 1 item short of the goal and fail the rest of the synths purposely making the leve vanish. However, this would not be the same as autofailing a battle leve as you would not automatically receive the same leve again and would be required to choose a leve at the leve counter. It might be the very same leve but that leve would be subject to the same random possibility of popping up and not be guaranteed. With the battle leve it would simply lose the red check and be doable again.

2) I think he was referring more to the fact that local leves can not be party stacked or GAed. Gathering leves can only be GAed. 5-6k SP from a very difficult synth for crafting or a gathering leve is a bit different than the mass amounts of SP gained by leve linking and GAing battle leves. Even at levels 40-50 gaining a level with a single 8 optimal battle leve set is an easy task with this method. With crafting you would be lucky to find 8 leves of the same class at optimal levels and they would come nowhere near leveling you in a single set at 40-50. With gathering leves you can only obtain 6 leves maximum at optimal level for a single class.

I understand the concept of the grind being a hassle, but I am not sure that this method of leveling should be encouraged.

[VydarrTyr]

1) I am not sure about this...I had a Bluefog leve I had to turn in a long while back but I could not reach there. I do not recall being able to overwrite it with another leve.

This was true at launch, but it was changed several months ago. Now, you can complete all the synth attempts, not turn in the leve, and just go back to the leve counter and get new leves to overwrite it.

However, this would not be the same as autofailing a battle leve as you would not automatically receive the same leve again and would be required to choose a leve at the leve counter.

This is true. In fact, if you fail to turn in a local leve, you will definitely not be offered the same leve again until after the next reset. So it is different in that way.

I think he was referring more to the fact that local leves can not be party stacked or GAed. Gathering leves can only be GAed.

This is true. But because there's no party crafting currently in the game, there's no way to offer party-stacking or GA for crafting.

[Rinsui]

Why don't they simply award a SP bonus when a leve is completed?

[Mortikhan]

Why don't they simply award a SP bonus when a leve is completed?

Until they find a way to "continue" leves after a DC, I don't think they would put this into play. Playing for 25 mins in a leve only to have some of your SP gain snatched away from you because of a hiccup in your connection would only serve to aggravate players even if it was only a bonus. This would also still not solve the issue of mass auto-failing of leves and reusing them unless they scaled back the SP value during the leve and made the bonus at the end substantial but again as I stated above, people with poor connections would go insane.

I have thought about what you suggested and also about the possibility of SE limiting the leve linking values and attaching more weight to GA because of it being in short supply and having a longer resupply time. Both of these have merit but of course people would find a way around both.

My main concern here for this entire topic is the gap that is happening with the battle classes and all of the other classes. A pure crafting/gathering style character has to invest a great deal more time with their chosen class to progress. This would not be so bad, but the fact that battle class leveling seems to be more of an after thought than an accomplishment or a pinnacle in creating your overall character. I think getting level 50 in any battle, crafting or gathering class should be a pinnacle moment in that players progression in this game, at the very least you should have some stories about it. Those memories although at times painful to recall, are what define your experience in any game. Someone else pointing out that you have an ability on your class that you did not realize you had because you missed it due to blowing right by it is hardly "epic". Finding a use for all of your abilities and when and where to use them is how you truly learn your class and how to play it. It will be painfully obvious when more group content comes out that is more difficult who did what and how they did it. Faster and easier is not synonymous with efficient. Sorry for the sermon .