Please fix marauder

[Honz]

Dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet but lots of people are overlooking a key factor to Marauder play, AoE.

If Mrd did the same single target dps as Archer or Lancer then the class would be called Archer or Lancer. Marauders are the masters of AoE threat generation and do great AoE damage. Before NMs were *cough* nerfed into the ground, Marauders could easily generate 1k+ tp with a single broad swing and spam his AoE weapon skills without worry.

Mosshorn fights as Marauder were incredibly fun since those adds have a decent amount of health. Marauder's TP generation on those fights were unmatched even against a pierce + invigorate II lancer.

Point is Marauders do have a role in a party, the real problem is there is no content at the moment that can bring out a Marauder's full potential.

[Duelle]

Point is Marauders do have a role in a party, the real problem is there is no content at the moment that can bring out a Marauder's full potential.

That's very dangerous ground to tread. Firstly because you then become notably less useful in a good number of situations. I've seen the "AoE aggro as the class' niche" thing tried, and it was alright but it relegated the involved class as second fiddle to the "real" tank class. Which means said class was marginally useful but still quite LOL in to those who figured out ways around needing that class.

[Burn]

MRD needs a buff, plain and simple. I think the class is just horribly designed especially with the steadfast mechanic even though it sounds cool on paper but there needs to be good tweaks done.

[Peregrine]

Dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet but lots of people are overlooking a key factor to Marauder play, AoE.

Marauder is not good at AoE. As a conjurer, the thought is laughable. They're only good on paper. Just because they have AoE abilities doesn't mean any of them are actually GOOD. Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you're not a gimp job at it.

A. The cone is impotent in terms of its shape and size, requiring constant position changes which makes...
B. The steadfast required for half of them unreliable and hamstringing. Even if you CAN get the right position...
C. AoE meleeing is gimp because...
D. Because Mages and Archers already have superior group attacks, so you're better off having the archers who can deplete TP with their mark attacks, or pugilists or lancers who can increase their TP with their regular attacks. Anything but full swinging marauders, really.
E. The mages have already slept half the crowd for REAL crowd control and you just screwed that up, thanks.
F. AoE meleeing is futile. A marauder will never be able to AoE DPS enough mobs to justify their use, because for there to be enough mobs alive and swinging to justify an AoE-meleeing marauder's utility, there'd have to be more than any tank can handle. Otherwise, the group's better off controlling the crowd and picking them off.

And if not, then just get a real AoE job to do it for you.

I'm sorry. Marauders may like to think they're good AoE jobs but they aren't. Archers are beter AoE'ers. Mages certainly are. THOSE are AoE'ers. THOSE are crowd controllers.

Marauder is a single target DD or it's nothing. This...whatever it is trying to be...isn't going to work.

[Dragon]

Do not nerf classes... really, nerfing isnt a solution to everything.

Buff the other classes, BUFF THE GODAMN NMs and add some challenging mechanic so solo isnt possible.

Agreed. Nothing should be nerfed, everything deserves at least to be buffed.

[Peregrine]

When it's easier to nerf the two problem jobs than change the entire world and system around them, you nerf em. No-brainer, if the problem is a broken part, you replace the part. You don't rebuild the entire system so that the parts somehow are no longer broken in new context.

Keeping the imbalance and enhancing everything around it spoils the player base. It encourages imbalance-getting, when honestly the behavior should be subtly punished. Not inviting marauders, lancers, and pugs should never be encouraged by an "EVERYBODY WINS!" reaction.

You need your hand slapped if you take to not inviting marauders. There's already no point in taking a marauder to the Ifrit fight. Unless there's just frank shameless marauder product placement in it, marauder's already useless.

So token at best. Already useless. That's where this job stands. Better hope the job overlays on marauder destroy ranger and archer in damage. Otherwise its' just a subjob.

[Duelle]

A. The cone is impotent in terms of its shape and size, requiring constant position changes

So increase the size of the cone and adjust damage/hate accordingly. Could even limit the cone effect the the MRD is actually tanking.

B. The steadfast required for half of them unreliable and hamstringing.

Then change steadfast to have nothing to do with standing still and something to do with another element of play.

C. AoE meleeing is gimp because...

Of the two problems above, which I have solved.

D. Mages and Archers already have superior group attacks, so you're better off having the archers who can deplete TP with their mark attacks, or pugilists or lancers who can increase their TP with their regular attacks.

This is until mobs in dungeons start getting larger health pools, are faster in terms of movement to one-shot an archer or conjurer, and more resistant to crowd control. The mistake in design is too much AoE crowd control, from what I can see (single target CC with cooldowns involved would mean the CON has to choose who to CC).

E. The mages have already slept half the crowd for REAL crowd control and you just screwed that up, thanks.

Read my above paragraph.

F. AoE meleeing is futile.

Can be used to create an interesting tanking mechanic (along with obviously single-target tanking), provided the developers put effort into making the class work as such when tanking.

Marauder is a single target DD or it's nothing. This...whatever it is trying to be...isn't going to work.

They borrowed part of the idea behind Bear Druids from WoW and tried to combine it with the Warlord class from Lineage II. *shrug*

[Peregrine]

Regardless of what they TRIED to do Marauder IS just a gladiator subjob right now.

[Arcell]

Peregrine you keep mentioning Marauder AoE like it practically doesn't exist. Marauders DO have AoE attacks they can use to hit entire groups, it's just not as effective as one or two Archer skills or mage nuke AoEs. They can still do it and if you have them along the added damage certainly if nothing else helps. Is it the best at it? No, but it can do it. Yes that does need to change but that seems to be the direction they were originally taking it in. The largest and most often used AoE range for any melee class. No matter what you say they're awful against single targets and do much better against larger groups. Best? No, but better than they did against a single target.

All in all though we'll have to see what they do with the class rebalancing and the job system in regards to Marauder.

[Peregrine]

They can still do it if we have them along, is that what the argument has become?
When you can't find a real AoE job, well you can take a marauder?

How lofty a goal. Sloppy...not even seconds.

Look, the reality of classes is that they have a finite amount of usefulness points. Archers have spent their usefulness points on strengths that matter. Marauders have not. They spent their points on things they are ultimately still gimp at and will probably always be gimp at.

Just as thief spent all its usefulness points on hate control and didn't have any more left over for what really mattered-damage...marauder is a waste of a DD, stocked with enmity-generators and impotent AoE ability.

Nothing a marauder is designed to do is a desirable trait in a meleer. It's just not.
If you want an AoE job, get a mage or an archer.
If you want a DD job, get an archer.
If you want a tank get a gladiator.

A marauder is, by your own admission, something you settle for when you can't find something better. You can argue that being good at a lot of different things matters, but as long as there is no point in taking all of them into consideration at once, there is no point in even inviting marauder at all for any singular role.

And the game just does not support, and probably can't support, a makebelieve scenario where a marauder would "shine." You feel free to come up with one and I'll give you a more optimal setup that doesn't include marauders.

Old marauders like to brag about how good they were at the former Mosshorn Dodore and haughtpox camps...and sorry. They just weren't that great, even at their best. Me AoE'ing plus a gladiator tanking better simply ate their lunches. Marauder there was marauder everywhere. Something you settled for when you didn't have a gladiator.