Please remove iLevel

[Caraway]

You are going to have vertical progression in any game with a level system, that's a fact and will never change (level systems by design are broken with current MMO design methodologies but that's a whole different discussion). So I personally don't see anything 'wrong' with scaling rewards along a progressive path in the format it's done in this game.

What I am a little interested in though is how SE plans on growing the game once a level cap hits. Will iLVL just keep scaling as it is now? We're only level 50 but we have what would effectively be a level 90's gear (assuming the scaling is linear). So what are we going to be using when we're actually 90?

Did FFXI do it this way with iLVL gear? Personally, I've felt that rarity tiers were a better way of dividing gear amongst a similar level, where each rarity/level combination only has so many stat points available for allocation meaning that the highest rarity for a level is the highest amount of stats someone in that level can attain. If more power is needed in such a system then either AAs (alternative advancement, a la EQ, EQ2 for example) or a level increase is required.

Personally I'm more a fan of the level increase method because then you're actually getting something for your work (in the form of new abilities and potentially new ways to play your character) as opposed to a comparatively boring statistical increase (a +5% DPS gain with the same skills is less fun to me than a +2% gain because you gained a new ability).

[Jocko]

snip

XI didn't have iLvl. It also maintained it's level cap over a looooooong period of time. Gear in that game was often situational, some pieces doing elemental damage, different attack damage types (slashing, blunt etc), had innate skills on it for different situations (Carbuncle Mitts, a piece of gear that made summoning Carbuncle have 0 upkeep cost or Kraken's Club, something that had the chance to proc several hits per attack), and there were pieces you could get as low as level 7 that could remain in slot up at cap. It made collecting gear actually -feel- meaningful

it was far more interesting than the linear scaling we have now. That's what I want to see in XIV

[rution19]

XI didn't have iLvl. It also maintained it's level cap over a looooooong period of time. Gear in that game was often situational, some pieces doing elemental damage, different attack damage types (slashing, blunt etc), had innate skills on it for different situations (Carbuncle Mitts, a piece of gear that made summoning Carbuncle have 0 upkeep cost or Kraken's Club, something that had the chance to proc several hits per attack), and there were pieces you could get as low as level 7 that could remain in slot up at cap. It made collecting gear actually -feel- meaningful

it was far more interesting than the linear scaling we have now. That's what I want to see in XIV

Agreed, FFXI had a much more complex way of equipping gear. iLevel is shortsighted much like the rest of game mechanics in FFXIV. Very little thought went into the gear system, it is all streamlined for ease.

[Zumi]

XI didn't have iLvl. It also maintained it's level cap over a looooooong period of time. Gear in that game was often situational, some pieces doing elemental damage, different attack damage types (slashing, blunt etc), had innate skills on it for different situations (Carbuncle Mitts, a piece of gear that made summoning Carbuncle have 0 upkeep cost or Kraken's Club, something that had the chance to proc several hits per attack), and there were pieces you could get as low as level 7 that could remain in slot up at cap. It made collecting gear actually -feel- meaningful

it was far more interesting than the linear scaling we have now. That's what I want to see in XIV

FFXI does have ilvl gear now, its just how games work now. ilvl was actually created by WoW and everyone copied it because it worked so well. No more guessing at what piece of gear was better.

[Jocko]

No more guessing at what piece of gear was better.

The simple fact that there's even an innately -best piece- (Or in XIV's case, that there's not even a potential argument) is the very problem. It's boring. I have no desire to farm for more DL or AF2 because it doesn't feel like I'm gaining anything substantial. It's the exact same as the gear I had before. It's nothing but a a hurdle to be passed with nothing interesting beyond. My character isn't gaining more versatility, utility, or potential build styles. Just higher stats

[Inosaska]

The simple fact that there's even an innately -best piece- (Or in XIV's case, that there's not even a potential argument) is the very problem. It's boring. I have no desire to farm for more DL or AF2 because it doesn't feel like I'm gaining anything substantial. It's the exact same as the gear I had before. It's nothing but a a hurdle to be passed with nothing interesting beyond. My character isn't gaining more versatility, utility, or potential build styles. Just higher stats

Well the thread can be locked since the person has already declared there stance and doesn't plan on changing there mind with what I quoted above. Gear check is being added because it prevents under geared players from doing content that they shouldn't be doing in the first place because they're just dragging everyone down with them and are being carried and not pulling there own weight.

[Sileka]

Snip.

Actually iLvL was invented by players. Blizzard simply added the feature because so many people used an add-on to display a numeral value based on gear. Though that is superficial to the point. My only problem with iLvL comes with how most people end up using it. They want folks to be over geared, not simply 'geared enough' so they cay plow through with as little trouble as possible. While I understand the desire to make a run as easy as possible, it makes it difficult for people to do instances they are geared for when they finally get geared for it. (Without being kicked out of a group or grumbled at.)

Otherwise I cannot say I agree. I have no issues with iLvL/Gear Scores in general since I see it as a way of judging if I am ready for an instance. My problem will always be how players eventually want over-geared and never give someone a chance to prove they are skilled even though they have an instance minimal Gear Score/iLvL.

[Nekodar]

I have no problem with people showing up with less than optimal gear...
But people shouldn't be allowed to enter for example WP with sub-AF gear and similarly low level weapons, if they want the DF to fill out the party. Want to try stuff undergeared? They can set up their own party and enter instead.
That's from actually having entered WP with such people and noticing early on that their damage output just wouldn't be enough for the pudding boss. Which it indeed wasn't.

[Keres]

Actually iLvL was invented by players. Blizzard simply added the feature because so many people used an add-on to display a numeral value based on gear

This is not true at all. Item level (as in, a coefficient that determines what sort of stat budget a particular item gets) has been in WoW since day one, and evaluating people based on their average item level has always been possible (though the "average item level" wasn't displayed in the UI until several years in). Even the weakest piece of gear in the game has an item level attached to it, and it simply determines how many stat points (and/or weapon damage) will be on that item. Vanilla WoW had a lot of instances where lower-ilvl gear was better than higher-ilvl gear, but that was mostly due to poor itemization (all 5 core stats on most pieces of Paladin gear!) rather than anything inherent to the game design itself.

What you're thinking of is "Gear Score," a player-made concept where a certain addon would take your item level, enchantments, gems, and other parameters into account and combine them all into one aggregate score.

[Zenaku]

XI didn't have iLvl. It also maintained it's level cap over a looooooong period of time. Gear in that game was often situational, some pieces doing elemental damage, different attack damage types (slashing, blunt etc), had innate skills on it for different situations (Carbuncle Mitts, a piece of gear that made summoning Carbuncle have 0 upkeep cost or Kraken's Club, something that had the chance to proc several hits per attack), and there were pieces you could get as low as level 7 that could remain in slot up at cap. It made collecting gear actually -feel- meaningful

it was far more interesting than the linear scaling we have now. That's what I want to see in XIV

Ya but you could do endgame with more then 30 people in FFXI so not everyone needed great gear. FFXIV is max 8 you can't count crystal tower as endgame. Seeing how they made it more simple and even added to the duty finder so more wide of players can enjoy and get items then again crystal tower was made as a stepping stone for coil so ya. FFXIV is tier progression and Ilvl is part of the system i think it late to change it now. Even tho i love to see item that i can use from 11-50 it just not that type of game. FFXI days are long gone this is how games are done. Too a game come around and become top in the market and make a new stranded.