Please remove iLevel

[HunkyJimpjorps]

"FFXI didn't have ilvl" is false. It did have item level; it was just invisible and doled out extremely inconsistently, so that you'd get Lv.7 Leaping Boots that outclassed every other footwear until the mid-60s or so. Then, since you could swap gear in content, you didn't even get that "customize how you play through your gear" effect that you apparently want; you'd just bring your entire wardrobe with you and gearswap into the situational gear you needed when you needed it.

Pre-Abyssea FFXI gear design is the pits. It's not worth romanticizing. I would like some post-Abyssea gear design, though, like the AF3 gear sets that provided job ability boosts and set bonuses as well as common stats.

[Shadowzanon]

Ilvl is just to ease up on how people will ask for what gear you may need to do x raid, dungeon ect. Before wow introduced ilvl people would say you need to have x gear to do this raid as minimum. Gear checks were just more complext but they darn exsisted in every game, you couldnt do black wings lair before molten core back in the day for example, you were expected to get gear to move to the next tier.

Examples now is how people just hit 50 and believe they can smack down AK with their lvl 44 wep ,af1 and crappy jewelry, ignoring wanderers palace completely which would get them better gear and even weapons to east the transition to ak. Ilvl makes things easier to identify. im glad they are going in the same route as wow having ilvl checks to go in dungeons to deter those who think they can tackle a challange with crappy gear and just be a crutch for the rest of the group

[Evangela]

Please remove iLevel

No

Please improve your gears

Yes

[Rivienne]

Go go anecdotal evidence!
.....
Minimum gear level > Skill > BiS gear level

His anecdotal evidence is still more evidence then I ever hear from the other side of the argument. A valid counterpoint requires proof. He provides situational evidence, you provide a supposition that implies his evidence is in fact misinterpreted, yet provide no evidence of your own.

The real gear requirement is alway going to be this: the minimum required for all party members to succeed at all within the time limits. Nothing else. If that is what you are implying here, then I agree, but otherwise.....

In my experience the real minimum required gear level is a lot lower than most people think, probably because people equate speed with success. You can succeed in a lot of fights if you have the time. So if a dungeon gives you 90 minutes, and you need 89 minutes with everyones current gear, it is going to be a pretty tight run, but that is when skill triumphs. Pin point precision.

The only way to prove otherwise is to do some rough numbers, and then start testing with an entire skilled group. Pick a dungeon, and start using lower and lower gear, on everyone, until you can no longer beat it in the time limit.

[CianaIezuborn]

His anecdotal evidence is still more evidence then I ever hear from the other side of the argument. A valid counterpoint requires proof. He provides situational evidence, you provide a supposition that implies his evidence is in fact misinterpreted, yet provide no evidence of your own.

True I didn't repeat previous numbers for hits that are available on the tanking forums, at some point you get tired of repeating info available in Titan guides. The desire to have > 5200 hp unbuffed as a paladin tank is to have more hp base than the combination of a mountain buster + AA damage for the burst phases. It can be done with lower hp(up until the point where MB alone one shots you), which is obvious from his success, but this requires a higher level of gear and skill from your healers as well as 0 room for error during mountain busters. But by entering into Titan HM with that lower gearset he is knowingly shifting additional responsibility onto his healers in a fight that is already hugely taxing on the healers. Most healers would claim a tank that had 4900 hp unbuffed would be unhealable during 5th phase Titan, and it probably would be for the average healer. If you aren't geared enough that an average healer can keep you up, then you're being carried by an above average healer. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, especially if you're running with FC mates that are trying to get you geared up asap, I'm just saying recognize that your lesser gear is being covered by people in better gear.

The real gear requirement is alway going to be this: the minimum required for all party members to succeed at all within the time limits. Nothing else. If that is what you are implying here, then I agree, but otherwise.....

This is exactly what I mean, though I mean minimum average gear level. You can walk into a Titan HM with 7 over-geared players in your skivvies and drop dead in the first 5 seconds and still win, that doesn't mean naked is the minimum gear level. Titan requires a higher hp pool to survive phase transitions and tumults, higher dps for heart phase dps race, and both for the soft enrage during phase 5. During phase 5, Titan does more damage to the party each full rotation and you are capped at a certain kill time by the max hp of your party members.

There is a huge jump in minimum gear level needed from Garuda to Titan. Garuda doesn't hit the group with anything to hard, so there really isn't any real need for additional HP beyond what you get for dinging 50. There's a moderate soft dps check in being able to burn the adds down, but it's not bad. You could probably down Garuda in a group full of AF1 armor, level 30 accessories, and GC weapons pretty easily, and people do it all the time.

The problem is when those same people then move on to Titan in that gear, and then wonder why it's so hard to survive. I really blame this on the huge jump in gear requirements for Titan, but I don't have to much sympathy because of this:

Everything you need to gear up for Titan is purchasable with Philo tomes, except for maybe an Ifrit/Garuda weapon for dps. So there is little to no chance involved in drops to get geared for Titan, you just have to suck it up like everyone else did and get some darklight gear. You can minimize the amount of tomes you need by getting lucky with AK armor drops, but there's really no excuse for showing up for a Titan HM still wearing AF1 gear when upgraded gear is so readily available.

The issue I have is that every time someone says, "You don't need to be geared for Titan!" then someone else hears it and insists on wanting to go do Titan when they have 2900 HP and 5 slots that could be upgraded from AK runs. You don't need to be geared for Titan IF other people in the raid are carrying you, as evident by the amount of Titan clears are being sold.

[Ceelo_Mage]

welcome to MMO gaming

[Rikudou-Sennin]

Hate to break it to you but WoW is like that too. They went further and came up with a gear score system. Then you really are a number.

[Kenjinmaru]

railroads itemization into a very dull linear path,
number next to their gear.
blurring the line between what gear is acceptable or not for pieces of content, allowing a player's own identity and skill to shine through

1) Railraods in a dull path? you didnt get the jist: it railroads in a simple path, and honestly you're going to make more happy souls with straigh forward effort=more power than effort= different power.
2) Number next to their gear? it will be the same damn thing in your Utopia: suddenly Ifrit Extreme will require a full set of Fire resistance gear. Welcome additional grinding. no thanks.
3) Blurring the lines? So you want it to be difficult for people to know whether someone has the required geared for Coil?
4) Player's identity to shine: Now please go on and tell me how your uniqueness of roleplay marvel makes you beat Titan heart phase or even Demon Wall with sub-par gear?

[Kenjinmaru]

Gear checks on key progression content is vital to keep people motivated to get "stronger", which is the ESSENCE of a RPG: you start level 1 with less than 100HP and 1 spell and end at 50 with over 3K (depending on the class you play) and 3 bars worht of keybind.

Your alternative might sound charming in the sense that if offers greater choice, but it would outright murder the spirit of "power growth"; good luck in keeping people subbed without it.

[Iecerint]

The lack of gear-change during battles currently significantly limits the utility of a horizontal progression system.

I personally found gear-change macros kinda cheesy in XI, so I'm OK with their being gone.