Please Squeenix, implement blind bids on the markets...

[roohan]

In my opinion the market won't work in the long run as it stands now. The markets is flooded by materials and the supply is too high compared to the demand. Just yesterday I was mining iron ore for my blacksmith and another 6! Miners were doing the same. Now I got 300 iron ores and about 30 HQ ores. Multiply this by the other miners and your at 1800 iron ores. I got 10 levels as blacksmith from these ores and still have about 100 ores left over. This means that about 9 blacksmiths can level from 15 to 25 from those six miners and their ore. Now taking into account that I didn't mine for leveling it gets even worse. Because miners gather even more than just 300 ores when they want to level on these.

As a crafter the same thing happens. You craft a ton iron Ingots noone really needs. You end up with like 1 stack of iron ore but on the markets are already several stacks listed, since you're not the only blacksmith grinding on iron ingots. The end of the story is that people start to undercut, because the supply is so damn high. There is still valuable stuff on the markets, but running through the town tells me that it's getting more problematic. In every corner sits a crafter who's going to hit level 50 fast I never so many people crafting in FFXI for example.

Even HQ items will drop in value pretty soon. I have carpenter and weaver at level 50 now. And with my cross class skill and HQ gear I can almost HQ everytime without using HQ base materials. This means more and more people will get two crafts at 50 as time goes by. This is especially bad because as miner or botanist I can't HQ at the rate my blacksmith can.

Even high level items will,drop because one crafter after the gets level 50 in no time.

[Gaddes]

lol all of this undercutting reminds me of the old days in FFXI... I used to make a fairly reasonable living farming stacks of beehive chips and slime oil which could go around 30k a stack. ... then other people became aware of this and within less than a couple weeks the market for those two things crashed to somewhere around 7k per stack. I've been noticing that quite a bit on the marketplace here, though I won't say what items are specifically taking the hit. Just a shame that people are in more of a rush to get money faster and are therefore fine with screwing themselves in the long run with undercutting.

[TheRac25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

[Hobo]

For the OP and for anyone else who doesn't have a simple understanding of supply and demand....



Econ 101 is now in session. Please pay $40 for your lessons.

[mmcsky]

Arguing supply and demand when I see people selling stacks of things for 1g, and losing money in the process to AH taxes. Where is the economy 101 sense there? Why in hell do people sell things as cheap or cheaper than vendor and lose money?

I understand supply and demand, what I do not understand is selling items for less than the single value of the materials needed to craft it, that is a horrible way to spend your time and money.

What the OP is trying to avoid, is people undercutting and selling things cheaper than what they would sell if we charged for the mats required to craft, not to mention the labor and gathering time.

[Rinsui]

@OP
Isn't that right how every free market works?
Crafters flood the market with goods regardless of current demand -> prices drop -> profitability sinks -> crafters stop flooding the market -> prices rise... and so forth.
For me as a buyer, the current system is just fine; if you try to gouge me, I'll simply wait for the undercutting to start.
If you don't like it, just stop producing goods regardless of demand.

[roohan]

And just add something. Often it's more a psychological problem instead of a supply and demand problem. There are still items that sell very quick. But all people see is "OMG 15 stacks of item X is currently for sale". The result is they undercut without even checking the market history. I saw this just today. In the history a certain item was sold pretty often each day. But what did the item cost? Just 2 Gil each..... I was like wtf, people actually buy this, why in the hell 2 Gil for this?

I mean your gear lost durability while gathering said item. You must likely teleported yourself to the place where you gathered it and you have to pay fees on the markets. This is indeed very irrational!

[Haibel]

Arguing supply and demand when I see people selling stacks of things for 1g, and losing money in the process to AH taxes. Where is the economy 101 sense there? Why in hell do people sell things as cheap or cheaper than vendor and lose money?

I understand supply and demand, what I do not understand is selling items for less than the single value of the materials needed to craft it, that is a horrible way to spend your time and money.

What the OP is trying to avoid, is people undercutting and selling things cheaper than what they would sell if we charged for the mats required to craft, not to mention the labor and gathering time.

Making a blind system does not change this. People will still undercut.

[Nica]

Arguing supply and demand when I see people selling stacks of things for 1g, and losing money in the process to AH taxes. Where is the economy 101 sense there? Why in hell do people sell things as cheap or cheaper than vendor and lose money?

Just like in the real world, no principle of economic(or anything else for that matter) can fix stupidity. Dumb people is a fact of life, online or offline.

I understand supply and demand, what I do not understand is selling items for less than the single value of the materials needed to craft it, that is a horrible way to spend your time and money.

That is caused by the market, there is higher demand for the base material due to there being a demand for it from crafters, but the demand is not there for the finished product, hence the lowered price - the crafters can either try to recoup part of their cost, or they can try to sell it at break-even or profitable price - and then not sell a damn thing because there are 2348792374 other people trying to recoup their cost, from all of 3 people on the server who actually want the stuff.

What the OP is trying to avoid, is people undercutting and selling things cheaper than what they would sell if we charged for the mats required to craft, not to mention the labor and gathering time.

It's not possible. Blind auctions or whatever market gimmicks are just tiny band-aid that in the end does nothing, because those cannot address the fundamental issue that lay at the core - there is not enough, nor will there ever be enough demand with the way the game is currently setup.

[mmcsky]

Making a blind system does not change this. People will still undercut.

Truth, though the fact that the way people deal with the current system is bad still stands, I do hope that either a system that improves this appears or that people become more educated when selling things, heck if there was a minimum price to sell that would stop people from selling less than vendor , it would really help.