Tank mentality.

[Viridiana]

If your response has anything to do with huge Medica II spamming at the start of the fight (the ONLY time a tank shouldn't have a huge threat lead)... either the dps is terrible and needs the healing they shouldn't need or the healer is massively over healing. In both cases said parties probably shouldn't even be there.

Because the DPS can totally avoid Tumult. . .

Don't get me wrong, there's still a good chance that the healer is overhealing; but you can't call that the tank's fault, which is what you originally did.

[Zoomie]

Because the DPS can totally avoid Tumult. . .

Don't get me wrong, there's still a good chance that the healer is overhealing; but you can't call that the tank's fault, which is what you originally did.

The level of healing required during Titan is completely predicable assuming dps isn't eating avoidable aoe. My point was that the only time the healer should be anywhere near the tanks threat is at the start of the fight. Like within the first 5-10 seconds. At this point tumult hits 3 times which hardly requires a WHM to start spamming Medica II. Medica II spam being the ONLY way a healer should be able to pull off a competent tank.

[Zoomie]

Allow me to clarify my original statement. I said that if a WHM is having threat issues on Titan then it is likely the fault of the tank. I've seen tanks spam shield lob as their threat rotation and pop ALL their defensing CD's on the engage. Pardon me if my cynicism is directed at tanks primarily.

All of this aside if we're operating on the assumption that the healer is massively overhealing there isn't much point to discussing this at all. The post that I was originally responding to mentioned that a WHM, despite using their threat dump, was still having threat issues on Titan. Given that the WHM is intelligent enough to use their threat dump my next culprate would be the tank failing to do his/her job which, lets face it, is often the case. Assuming that the healer was using massive overheals, the ONLY way to pull off a tank, renders this entire discussion pointless.

Next we can talk about how the BLM pulls with flare and wonder why they has threat issues too.

[Tanaya]

The post that I was originally responding to mentioned that a WHM, despite using their threat dump, was still having threat issues on Titan.

You're assuming they were using Shroud of Saints.

Btw, I was the tank, and I had full DL, Garuda's Gaze, and an optimal rotation, as well as spreading my cooldowns.

Tanking Titan is pants on heads easy, but you're really underestimating just how easy it is for a WHM to overheal in this fight without multiple uses of Shroud of Saints.

[Sephirah]

You're assuming they were using Shroud of Saints.

Btw, I was the tank, and I had full DL, Garuda's Gaze, and an optimal rotation, as well as spreading my cooldowns.

Tanking Titan is pants on heads easy, but you're really underestimating just how easy it is for a WHM to overheal in this fight without multiple uses of Shroud of Saints.

This.

I too was tanking Titan, and I agree it is not hard for us to hold hate the entire fight, but if the rest of the raid is taking damage, the healer is going to need to use Shroud or they will pull aggro.

[Vyserion]

You're assuming they were using Shroud of Saints.

Btw, I was the tank, and I had full DL, Garuda's Gaze, and an optimal rotation, as well as spreading my cooldowns.

Tanking Titan is pants on heads easy, but you're really underestimating just how easy it is for a WHM to overheal in this fight without multiple uses of Shroud of Saints.

This.

When doing Titan for my WHM Relic, even with experienced and well-geared tanks, I had plan out my use of Shroud in order to not take threat. Your first few sets of Medicas during stomps essentially guarantee that you're going to be riding the tank's back with threat. Obviously lesser geared tanks have problems, but I frequently have to shroud either just as I transitioned into phase 2 after a Divine Sealed Medica, or sometime shortly thereafter. For threat, not even for mana issues.

It's easy to out-threat damage dealers. A White Mage can ramp up essentially unavoidable threat simply because he/she is forced to heal everyone. God forbid your first Medica during stomps crit all targets.

[Ehayte]

It's easy to out-threat damage dealers. A White Mage can ramp up essentially unavoidable threat simply because he/she is forced to heal everyone. God forbid your first Medica during stomps crit all targets.

I wish we had a separate thread for this with this discussion already in it. My FC is working on Titan currently, and one of our WHMs who has Ifrit weap is constantly nipping my heals on hate (5700hp, Ifrit Weap PLD). About 30% of the attempts she actually TAKES it after the first jump. I'm not a sucky tank and I know how to optimize my threat generation, but WHMs can certainly steal aggro during Titan if they are comparably geared or more geared than the tank.

[redmech78]

I tend to be very pleasant, until people fail to follow very basic rules in regards to being responsible players:

• Read up on the fights. Do not run into a new dungeon and ask the equivalent of "what does this fight do" prior to every boss.
  
  
• I will always mark what should be your DPS focus. If you goof, I will try to 'voke the mob back. If you continue to goof, the mob is yours. Go play with it. When you are dead, I will pull the mob off the healer.
  
  
• Watch your enmity generation. You have two graphical indicators letting you know where you stand. Everybody knows what will happen if they don't watch their enmity, yet they do not take responsibility when they ignore this extremely simple mechanic.
  
  
• Stop pointing fingers. If you f*** up, own it. Then improve. I believe that if people spent more time trying to be self-aware rather than trying to justify how they are not screwing up, they would actually become better players.