Tank mentality.

[Grailer]

Doing titan to get relic using DF the only D'bags ive met are the DPS and healers that que with utter garbage gear thinking they can win .

Totally lazy on their part, they clearly got carried through Ifrit + Garuda and looking for free ride to relic .

The problem is there are so many of these free loaders you can get up to 4 in one group .

[Kuvu]

Most of us are jade from putting up with douche bags. I piss a lot of people offat times but iam through dealing with their shit. I had a group the other day that had not been attacking the marked target from the start then they admitted they were doing it on pourpose and laughing about it mumble. Honestly if the dps are being douches and the healer is in cleric stance the hole time dpsing and shit goes south I have no issues with timing it out, if they dont like it they can leave. Takes me a minute to get another group, they can either straighten up or leave and wait another 30 minutes for a group.

[Zoomie]

Doing titan to get relic using DF the only D'bags ive met are the DPS and healers that que with utter garbage gear thinking they can win .

Totally lazy on their part, they clearly got carried through Ifrit + Garuda and looking for free ride to relic .

The problem is there are so many of these free loaders you can get up to 4 in one group .

The margin for "dead weight" is severely reduced from Ifrit > Garuda > Titan and people don't seem to know or care. Really Ifrit would probably be done with as few as 5 people given that at least one has an aoe Limit. Garuda less so and Titan less so to the extreme. That doesn't stop people from trying to "get lucky" LONG before they are ready for Titan sadly.

[RapBreon]

The margin for "dead weight" is severely reduced from Ifrit > Garuda > Titan and people don't seem to know or care. Really Ifrit would probably be done with as few as 5 people given that at least one has an aoe Limit. Garuda less so and Titan less so to the extreme. That doesn't stop people from trying to "get lucky" LONG before they are ready for Titan sadly.

I was in a group that did Ifrit with only ghosts costumes on. Man that was fucking funny.

[Lev]

SO I didnt read much after the first page and having played both Warrior and Black mage into Coil I can honestly say that most tanks just walk in with a bad attitude. I was helping a group out with hydra yesterday and the dps couldnt get the add down fast enough and the healer couldnt keep me up for triumverate even with me poping my CD's. Instead of getting mad I would say things like: good work we're getting there just remember to burn those adds or healer good work but 8/10 times after a white breath comes a triumverate so be ready. The only time i get snappy is if someone shifts blame for their mistakes or refuses to try a new strategy (ex. at first we had a pally and i was BLM. the pally way over complicated the fight and wouldnt hold aggro or position and dodge correctly. I called him out on it and he shifted the blame to dps and healers so i went WAR to be a safety net and so on until he left out of frustration that we couldnt get it past half and that he wasnt willing to switch to a simpler strategy. after he left we constantly got it down to 5% until i had to leave for real life.

[Vyserion]

You're assuming they were using Shroud of Saints.

Btw, I was the tank, and I had full DL, Garuda's Gaze, and an optimal rotation, as well as spreading my cooldowns.

Tanking Titan is pants on heads easy, but you're really underestimating just how easy it is for a WHM to overheal in this fight without multiple uses of Shroud of Saints.

This.

When doing Titan for my WHM Relic, even with experienced and well-geared tanks, I had plan out my use of Shroud in order to not take threat. Your first few sets of Medicas during stomps essentially guarantee that you're going to be riding the tank's back with threat. Obviously lesser geared tanks have problems, but I frequently have to shroud either just as I transitioned into phase 2 after a Divine Sealed Medica, or sometime shortly thereafter. For threat, not even for mana issues.

It's easy to out-threat damage dealers. A White Mage can ramp up essentially unavoidable threat simply because he/she is forced to heal everyone. God forbid your first Medica during stomps crit all targets.

[glen7187]

Putting in my 2 cents. I think the tank is the leader. But being a leader and being a tyrant are 2 different things. For myself, I try to change and adapt to the group. And when I am new to a dungeon, I will let the group know and ask them to guide me if need be.

On the other hand, I've been leveling my healer and man watching some of these tanks and having done the dungeon 100s of times, I just wanna be like OMG why would you do that? But I do my best to hold my tongue cause for me, everyone is different, everyone plays differently, and what you may think is the right way may not be what someone else thinks is the right way.

I have noticed though that this "people are d-bags" thing seems to appear more near the end-game. In the earlier game, people seem to be a lot more open and a lot more forgiving. But that may be because I played this from earlier access until now so I may have just been lucky to have lots of new players in my groups. But now that I'm in end-game, it seems like either everyone thinks they know exactly how to play and how everyone else should play, or everyone wants to be complete d-bags and screw up/waste your time. The other day I was in DF for 60 minutes waiting for Ifrit HM just to have a whm pull Ifrit at the beginning and wipe us. And he kept doing that until people left. So I just wasted freaking 60 minutes and I'd have to wait another 60 minutes if I wanted to try through DF again... Same with CM, I waited 45 minutes to get into CM just to have some WAR who pretending like he was hot stuff, pulled mobs in before the group was there and destroyed all of our cannons, then left. So we got to do CM the old fashioned way...

Anyway, let's just all agree to respect each other and the way people are. If I'm in a group and the tank has asked me to do something a certain way, if I disagree I let him know, if he doesn't want to agree with me then I'll just do it his way. If we die then he sees I'm right, if not then it turned out to be good so lets move on.

[Ehayte]

It's easy to out-threat damage dealers. A White Mage can ramp up essentially unavoidable threat simply because he/she is forced to heal everyone. God forbid your first Medica during stomps crit all targets.

I wish we had a separate thread for this with this discussion already in it. My FC is working on Titan currently, and one of our WHMs who has Ifrit weap is constantly nipping my heals on hate (5700hp, Ifrit Weap PLD). About 30% of the attempts she actually TAKES it after the first jump. I'm not a sucky tank and I know how to optimize my threat generation, but WHMs can certainly steal aggro during Titan if they are comparably geared or more geared than the tank.

[redmech78]

I tend to be very pleasant, until people fail to follow very basic rules in regards to being responsible players:

• Read up on the fights. Do not run into a new dungeon and ask the equivalent of "what does this fight do" prior to every boss.
  
  
• I will always mark what should be your DPS focus. If you goof, I will try to 'voke the mob back. If you continue to goof, the mob is yours. Go play with it. When you are dead, I will pull the mob off the healer.
  
  
• Watch your enmity generation. You have two graphical indicators letting you know where you stand. Everybody knows what will happen if they don't watch their enmity, yet they do not take responsibility when they ignore this extremely simple mechanic.
  
  
• Stop pointing fingers. If you f*** up, own it. Then improve. I believe that if people spent more time trying to be self-aware rather than trying to justify how they are not screwing up, they would actually become better players.

[Angelwatch]

As I get approach end game I've yet to meet these so called d-bags. I'm sure they're around, but I've never met them... I met a terrible healer once but that was about it.

Attitudes change very quickly at 50. Prior to 50 I enjoyed almost all of my dungeon runs. Most people were doing them for the first time (first character to 50) and it made for good experiences. At 50 things change drastically because there are a number of people who have been 50 for a very long time, forget what it's like to be a fresh 50 and very intolerant to a fresh 50 needing to learn the dungeons.

Once I hit 50 I had some very good groups that understood that I was new to 50 and I also had some of my worst experiences in dungeons in any MMO game ever. I was told that I suck. I was told to quit the game. I was told I am a horrible human being. And so on.

On the other hand, I'll admit that I'm just as guilty of being annoyed with fresh 50's who don't know how to do things. But, usually, it goes back to something I said way earlier in this thread and that's where the fresh 50 doesn't admit to not knowing a dungeon. I had one time where the Healer and one DPS had never done Wandering Palace before. Clearing up to the second boss isn't that hard if you follow the tank. The first boss is stupidly easy. However, if you don't understand the second boss, you're going to die. The Healer got focused, stood there and took the Blob's attacks like a champ and died. His response "Sorry guys, first time here." My response "Telling us that while engaging the second boss of the dungeon is the best time to let us know that." He didn't take that too well. My point was that I wasn't angry that it was his first time here but it was a wipe that was entirely avoidable if he had just spoken up so I could have told him to MOVE if he gets focused.