Tank mentality.

[RapBreon]

The margin for "dead weight" is severely reduced from Ifrit > Garuda > Titan and people don't seem to know or care. Really Ifrit would probably be done with as few as 5 people given that at least one has an aoe Limit. Garuda less so and Titan less so to the extreme. That doesn't stop people from trying to "get lucky" LONG before they are ready for Titan sadly.

I was in a group that did Ifrit with only ghosts costumes on. Man that was fucking funny.

[Angelwatch]

As I get approach end game I've yet to meet these so called d-bags. I'm sure they're around, but I've never met them... I met a terrible healer once but that was about it.

Attitudes change very quickly at 50. Prior to 50 I enjoyed almost all of my dungeon runs. Most people were doing them for the first time (first character to 50) and it made for good experiences. At 50 things change drastically because there are a number of people who have been 50 for a very long time, forget what it's like to be a fresh 50 and very intolerant to a fresh 50 needing to learn the dungeons.

Once I hit 50 I had some very good groups that understood that I was new to 50 and I also had some of my worst experiences in dungeons in any MMO game ever. I was told that I suck. I was told to quit the game. I was told I am a horrible human being. And so on.

On the other hand, I'll admit that I'm just as guilty of being annoyed with fresh 50's who don't know how to do things. But, usually, it goes back to something I said way earlier in this thread and that's where the fresh 50 doesn't admit to not knowing a dungeon. I had one time where the Healer and one DPS had never done Wandering Palace before. Clearing up to the second boss isn't that hard if you follow the tank. The first boss is stupidly easy. However, if you don't understand the second boss, you're going to die. The Healer got focused, stood there and took the Blob's attacks like a champ and died. His response "Sorry guys, first time here." My response "Telling us that while engaging the second boss of the dungeon is the best time to let us know that." He didn't take that too well. My point was that I wasn't angry that it was his first time here but it was a wipe that was entirely avoidable if he had just spoken up so I could have told him to MOVE if he gets focused.

[Nonlinear314]

But, usually, it goes back to something I said way earlier in this thread and that's where the fresh 50 doesn't admit to not knowing a dungeon. I had one time where the Healer and one DPS had never done Wandering Palace before. Clearing up to the second boss isn't that hard if you follow the tank. The first boss is stupidly easy. However, if you don't understand the second boss, you're going to die. The Healer got focused, stood there and took the Blob's attacks like a champ and died. His response "Sorry guys, first time here." My response "Telling us that while engaging the second boss of the dungeon is the best time to let us know that." He didn't take that too well. My point was that I wasn't angry that it was his first time here but it was a wipe that was entirely avoidable if he had just spoken up so I could have told him to MOVE if he gets focused.

This x1000000000000

I make sure to ALWAYS tell a DF group if it is my first time but that I've read strats (which I always do) or watched a vid (where applicable). It is the FIRST THING I will do. I will usually ask for advice on the kill order of trash as well, since most guides don't go into that. I usually have my own guidelines, e.g. if it is half-naked, if it is smaller and/or if is a flier or has big ass teeth or claws or something like that, it tends to die first unless it has some kind of special ability I don't know about.

[Grailer]

FATE grinders are the problem , they have zero skills at group stratergy .

I level from 15-50 in dungeons on WAR and PLD and 15-32 on WHM

Developed the skills to encounter any challenge for first time usually one shot .

Titan would be one shot if the 7 other players in group didn't suck.

[TaranNos]

FATE grinders are the problem , they have zero skills at group stratergy .

I level from 15-50 in dungeons on WAR and PLD and 15-32 on WHM

That's great, but do you know how long it takes for DPS queues for non-50 dungeons? I would have loved to level my DRG in dungeons, but to do so I would have to wait 30-45minutes, not be able to join a fate group in the meantime which means all I can do is follow the giant groups around and get bronze for fates, then get subpar exp in a dungeon.

[Kuvu]

Most of us are jade from putting up with douche bags. I piss a lot of people offat times but iam through dealing with their shit. I had a group the other day that had not been attacking the marked target from the start then they admitted they were doing it on pourpose and laughing about it mumble. Honestly if the dps are being douches and the healer is in cleric stance the hole time dpsing and shit goes south I have no issues with timing it out, if they dont like it they can leave. Takes me a minute to get another group, they can either straighten up or leave and wait another 30 minutes for a group.

[Lev]

SO I didnt read much after the first page and having played both Warrior and Black mage into Coil I can honestly say that most tanks just walk in with a bad attitude. I was helping a group out with hydra yesterday and the dps couldnt get the add down fast enough and the healer couldnt keep me up for triumverate even with me poping my CD's. Instead of getting mad I would say things like: good work we're getting there just remember to burn those adds or healer good work but 8/10 times after a white breath comes a triumverate so be ready. The only time i get snappy is if someone shifts blame for their mistakes or refuses to try a new strategy (ex. at first we had a pally and i was BLM. the pally way over complicated the fight and wouldnt hold aggro or position and dodge correctly. I called him out on it and he shifted the blame to dps and healers so i went WAR to be a safety net and so on until he left out of frustration that we couldnt get it past half and that he wasnt willing to switch to a simpler strategy. after he left we constantly got it down to 5% until i had to leave for real life.

[glen7187]

Putting in my 2 cents. I think the tank is the leader. But being a leader and being a tyrant are 2 different things. For myself, I try to change and adapt to the group. And when I am new to a dungeon, I will let the group know and ask them to guide me if need be.

On the other hand, I've been leveling my healer and man watching some of these tanks and having done the dungeon 100s of times, I just wanna be like OMG why would you do that? But I do my best to hold my tongue cause for me, everyone is different, everyone plays differently, and what you may think is the right way may not be what someone else thinks is the right way.

I have noticed though that this "people are d-bags" thing seems to appear more near the end-game. In the earlier game, people seem to be a lot more open and a lot more forgiving. But that may be because I played this from earlier access until now so I may have just been lucky to have lots of new players in my groups. But now that I'm in end-game, it seems like either everyone thinks they know exactly how to play and how everyone else should play, or everyone wants to be complete d-bags and screw up/waste your time. The other day I was in DF for 60 minutes waiting for Ifrit HM just to have a whm pull Ifrit at the beginning and wipe us. And he kept doing that until people left. So I just wasted freaking 60 minutes and I'd have to wait another 60 minutes if I wanted to try through DF again... Same with CM, I waited 45 minutes to get into CM just to have some WAR who pretending like he was hot stuff, pulled mobs in before the group was there and destroyed all of our cannons, then left. So we got to do CM the old fashioned way...

Anyway, let's just all agree to respect each other and the way people are. If I'm in a group and the tank has asked me to do something a certain way, if I disagree I let him know, if he doesn't want to agree with me then I'll just do it his way. If we die then he sees I'm right, if not then it turned out to be good so lets move on.

[mythicrose]

I've compiled a joke thread on my FC's website based on true events through the DF. Though made for laughs, there are a lot damage dealers that adequately follow the guide and make tanks life harder than necessary at times. Some what of a long read for those conditioned to today's texting standards, but...



Mythic Rose’s Tips for Damage Dealers

Let’s all be honest here. We all know where the true glory of any team is….it’s the damage dealers. Tanks only believe they control situations. Healers falsely believe their attention should be on the tanks. Here are some tips to help you damage dealers steal the spot light and show everyone how 1337 you truly are!

Tanks have such a small range to pull targets to them. Bards, this is really your place to show how awesome you are. With your instant attacks, you can easily out range that tank’s puny shield lob or tomahawk throw. You should feel compelled to unleash hell on the first target in range. Don’t stop attacking once the tank finally gets his pudgy butt to the mob. You can’t maximize your output by stopping. Instead, impress that healer and make the melee envious of your style as you run, jump, and flip turn your way to victory. Your tank will love you for it.

Casters, you can’t let that bard out shine you now, right? So what if he wants to help the tank by pulling a single mob. Usually that mob has friends…and friends love AoE! Focus your biggest, strongest AoE attacks when the mobs are in range. The tank may catch up to the mobs by the time your cast is complete. With your devastating magiks, you know that tank is grinning ear to ear seeing mob health melt. After all, you’re just making his life easier.

Melee. I feel your pain. You see that Bard and Caster already climbing the damage charts while you’re stuck trudging in the mud to the target. Take this time to pop every single damage buff you have. You’re going to need it. The tank is already quite happy with the ranged damage dealers performance thus undecided on which mob really needs his attention first. Take this opportunity to use your fresh buffs on the nearest target of opportunity. Shame that ranged damage dealer as you rip enmity off him. Hell, he may even thank you for it (except a bard…those bastards are never happy). By all means do not move out of red AoE markers. Your dps will plummet (especially you monks!). That healer needs something to do besides tossing the occasional heal at the tank. Don’t worry about enmity drops. The tanks love being challenged for the top enmity spot.

Summoners, don’t forget to use pets with knockback effects. If you’re good (and we know you are) you’ll use that knock bock to screw the melee over thanks to their positional attacks. You’ll also give that tank a nice moment to relax and breathe as that mob is not longer hitting him. The healer may even give you a furtive wink for displaying such uncanny ability. While not as impressive as flare or fire 3, don't forget to bane every time you can....shadow flare too! Help keep that tank on his/her toes. The marked mobs are just for show, after all.

Black mages, you don’t ever want to sleep targets. Sleeps means you’re doing your job wrong! So you have a skill that could enhance a party member’s elemental resistance? Don’t you dare use it. Besides being a pointless skill (really…why make the healer’s job easier?) you aren’t doing damage when you cast it! Popping any and all cooldowns and your biggest AoE attacks is the way to go. We want to see 2k Flares here on the opening pull!

Bards, you don’t need to use songs. Why the hell would you? If you kill things fast enough, that healer won’t need mana. You certainly don’t want to give TP generation to melee as they may yet further climb the damage charts. You’re a damage class after all, not support. Leave those silences to a paladin.

Monks/Dragoons never ever, ever, ever, take your attention of bosses to do something trivial like “killing adds”. You’ll never keep up or pass the ranged damage dealers if you don’t do perfect rotations. Be very vocal when a tank moves the boss causing you to miss a positional requirement in your combos. That’s clearly a bad tank and it’s his fault your dps just plummeted. Again, don’t worry about standing in the Red Zones. That’s what a healer is for right? Just be sure to blame them if you don’t get topped off asap. That boss won’t die without you after all. Who cares if the tank goes down. Surely a Bard can kite it while the healer raises the tank.

With these tips, I’ve no doubt you damage dealers with awe people with your amazing numbers be it friends you’ve known for years, or people you’ve never met before through the Duty Finder. It can be hard to impress the former, but with just the right display of skill, the latter shall always remember about you. If you really made an impression, that duty finder person may even create a thread about your awesomeness on the Square Enix website! Woohoo!!

[Yamitri]

best, post, ever. ^
Totally posting that on my guild site.