Shroud of Saints is Broken...and NOT in a good way

[Cousinjimmy]

Honestly when you go oom as Whm it's a combination of DPS lacking and/or poor mp management. We are killing HM garuda in 4:07 now -- very close to cut into the 3 min mark; of course when it takes forever it is very hard to sustain healing with garuda + chid + sup ganging up on you. Turn 4 Whm will likely go oom after 2nd dreadnought dies but soon enough SV ballad should kick in. Whm have a naturally larger MP pool comparing to Sch and that gap would expand even further when geared with full Allagan/Af2.

[Lazarou742]

Im sorry but as scholars arent allowed to point out weaknesses in their class, and ask for buffs you certainly arent allowed to. Thread done.

[Pharazon]

Okay just so we have some facts in this thread to go by:

White Mage Base Mana (assuming 30 points in mind) -- 3515
Natural Mana Regen - 211 mana every 3 seconds (6% per tick)
Mana regen via Shroud of Saints - 212 mana every 3 seconds (1060 mp in total)


So shroud at its basic level is roughly 30% of your mana back every 2 minutes.

At my current gear level, which is relic, full darklight, and two myth pieces (ring and pants) my mana pool is 4432 so I regen 265 mp per 3s and shroud is 23% of my mana pool.

As it stands healing everything through turn 4 I have not had any mana issues that shroud and proper healing haven't been able to handle. It would take a huge jump in gear ilvl and subsequently mana pools for this to become an issue. I would imagine that long before we get there it will be addressed. So for now its something to keep tucked away in the back of your mind, but will not be an issue for quite a while.


--Sarenalyn Uphyr (Cactuar)

[KikoriL]

It isn't just about healing. When push comes to shove, Shroud's good enough for JUST Cure I on targets with Freecure for the tank when luck shines on you.
What it does fall short on is when a White Mage has to go into DPS, or is attempting to solo heal a fight where two are expected. The need for more recovery rises insanely when you're trying to throw out Stone, Aero, or Holy when they're more useful than healing slivers of missing HP. Shroud can't cover THAT with a flat rate, yet it's expected of any healer who doesn't want to be called lazy or unable to help speed things up. Bard dies? No bard? Anything about outside refresh goes out the window, and acting like it's not possible is silly. Solo healing (even when you have two healers and one's down) becomes an immense strain at that point.
Shroud shouldn't need an huge change to stop being broken. Thirty seconds less cooldown. Or percentage based refresh. Or trade a little enmity drop for a bit more refresh. Just something.

[Thunderz]

kinda sucks when you want to push your class and DPS but you know... that brings us closer to OOM situations and asking BRD to use song kinda defeats the purpose then while SCH can (no limit!)

[Judge_Xero]

While Shroud doesn't scale as well as Aether it's not certain what kind of traits whm will get later on. Increase refresh to 200 etc.

Right now though Whm and Sch are pretty balanced because of their potency per MP on heals. Even Aldo if it crits would only be 900 potency for over 300 MP. Regen is always 1050 potency for a little over 200 MP.

[Bigpurpleharness]

Bards.



No, it's the same MP regeneration regardless. It just increase HP regeneration.

If you really want the SCH's MP regen, can the SCH's get Medica I and II please?

Fuck it, sure. And WHM can get Lustrates and their enmity split with a fairy. Oh, and then SCHs can get 18% stoneskin and mdef on protect, then WHMs can get two GCDs and mitigation tools!

... Don't act like the guy is asking for them to be the exact same. He's simply wondering why WHMs are the only healers who need to worry about mana.

[Dalavon]

Each class has their own pros and cons. If managed correctly, you can easily go the entire fight without going oom. Yes this also relies on free cure procs, but let's be honest, those happen enough ^^

Shroud may not scale, but it drops threat. Big bonus over schs on that note alone. I'm sure as patches come along and our mana pools get even bigger, they'll probably change it. For now, just manage it properly and win. And not to mention if you're effectively using your other cd's (eye for an eye, virus, DIVINE SEAL, etc) it makes up for it even more. Take DS. Extra healing means less mana spent. Bam.

[Espon]

Scholars have Aetherflow, which will restore mana equivalent to 20% of the caster's MP pool. Aetherflow at level 50 grants 3 stacks, which can then be used to cast another Ability to restore MP, "Energy Drain." Energy Drain will restore 50% of the damage dealt, as MP back to the caster, this amount is doubled by the Arcanist Trait, "Enhanced Energy Drain." Scholars can Use Cleric stance to increase the damage dealt by Energy Drain to increase MP restoration even more.

MP and damage has no effect on Energy Drain. It will always restore 266 MP per use. It also means scholars cannot put those charges towards Lustrate or Sacred Soil.

[CalvatE]

I don't really know what to think of regarding the MP regen. When you hit 4500 I find it's quite alright when it comes to mana, but even at 5000 mana I have issues keeping in the 'good' range when DPS begin derping around and I'm required to AoE heal. We may have superior AoE heals but when you stack those around it's going to cost you.

Though, why would we ever need a bard them? Make them sing as intended right? Well the bards I play with now days, I'm the problem if they need to sing Mage's Ballad. Before the bard nerf it wasn't so bad but now I struggle to find a bard willing to sing anymore which annoys me since they shouldn't be playing bard if they wont sing anything but Foe's.


SCH every minute restore 1000 MP (266*3 MP regen on top if there ever becomes a struggle) and some of their heals (25~50% depending on how you want to see it) are from the fairy which doesn't consume the SCH's mana.
But the MP cost for each of the skills is the exact same. 144 for Cure 1 (Physick), 266 for Cure 2 (Adlo).

So they regen more every minute in terms of MP, their fairy contributes heals which means less MP used, and their MP cost is the exact same as a WHM's so in comparison; Yeah, I find it really unfair.
But I wont say it's unplayable. It's been suggested in the past to have SoS scale with Piety/MP and I would agree to this, even if it meant cutting the Emnity in half (because a tank who doesn't have emnity is not too good of a tank IMO; unless you're purposely trying to piss the mob off).