Endgame too challenging and teamwork based (Hear me out)!

[Jynxii]

Biggest problem has been said already. It's the gear gap. ... Once crystal tower comes in and more gear is flowing that gap will close. Which will allow for lesser skilled players to do coil due to having a wider margin for mistakes.

Completely forgot to acknowledge this. I'm pretty sure even Yoshi P predicted that less than 100 people would finish Coil before 2.1, and if the head honcho is 'okay' with that, than I'm pretty sure he is 'okay' with people struggling on earlier turns until Crystal Tower and i80 gear comes out.

In their current state, some of the encounters are very tight, and little things can make or break an attempt. If you take turn4, getting the DPS required to push through requires food, potions and being on top of your game/rotations. Heck, if the bugs don't get eaten fast enough for the first Dreadnaught it is essentially a wipe. Now go back to this encounter with a mix of i80/i90 gear and the constraints are likely to loosen up as you'll be doing more DPS overall, and taking an extra 5 seconds to feed the bugs won't be as devastating.

In short, I guess, content will be more 'accessible' when the progression step towards it is actually in the game. Until then, just like people who are clearing the content, you'll have to bust your butt off and invest in consumables. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but even though I (and my FC) have been clearing through BC for the last 3-4 weeks, we still go in with high quality/tiered food and play hard/serious to do the encounters; it isn't a matter of "Oh, we cleared the encounter 3 times now, so now its easy mode and can slack off on dps/rotations/communication". Is this a view that people 'struggling' believe is the case? Because I can assure you in most cases, it simply isn't true, and probably won't be until gear starts outweighing the content, like every other MMO.

[Lagosaurus]

If someone else already stated this before than my bad but I'm not going to read through 20 pages of posts.

The reason that so many people think that Endgame content (Coil) is too difficult is that the majority of groups are severely undergeared. What you have to realize is that Crystal Tower (patch 2.1) is meant to bridge the gear gap for Coil. Coil is not meant to be completed yet, Yoshi himself said that he believes less than 100 players will clear Turn 5 before patch 2.1 drops. The only reason that Coil is even unlocked right now is because they already had the raid ready in time for the game's relaunch. Just because you can't clear Coil in its current state without mastering fight mechanics doesn't mean that they need to lower the difficulty, it means that you're attempting a raid that you aren't geared enough to effectively complete.

tl;dr Endgame content is fine just the way it is.

[Pellegri]

Completely forgot to acknowledge this. I'm pretty sure even Yoshi P predicted that less than 100 people would finish Coil before 2.1, and if the head honcho is 'okay' with that, than I'm pretty sure he is 'okay' with people struggling on earlier turns until Crystal Tower and i80 gear comes out.

If it wasn't for certain bugs(twisters) I can guarantee there would have been quite a bit more than 100 players that would have finished this by now. If they do not fix the bug in this latest hotfix and then it just magically "disappears" in 2.1 and groups are able to roll over it, it is assumed by many that they planned for it to be like this just to stall players from finishing the current endgame before anything harder than it is released(CT is easier).

Gear is no longer an excuse at this point, saying that CT gear is in any way shape or form needed to finish this instance is a flat out lie. There have been many groups that in the first weeks or even now that do turns 1-4 in nothing but darklight, if that is possible for 80% of the instance there does not need to be a gap closer in gear to finish it off. You get ilvl 90 pieces in coil and can get more through myth, people have the gear to finish this thing the only thing holding them back from doing so is a "bug" that may or may not be intended to gate people.

[Grailer]

I think that end game gear should be as easy to obtain as it was for my level 45 armor . Why should I have to actually learn stuff to obtain best gear ? just kidding , but seriously people are asking for easy content lol ?

[Lirion12]

I rather enjoy the content the way it is. (Or was, we'll find out here shortly as I download the update) The endgame isn't difficult. The problem is that you and other's don't like an enviroment that requires you to be interactive. Having to "dodge" attacks is a concept mostly foreign to MMOs. And it does produce it's own challenge. But as with anything, practice makes perfect. You want people to learn the content. Get about 5 people that can clear it. And train say, a tank, a dps, and a healer. Thus increasing the number of people capable. The server (at least mine) shuns people inexperienced. Thus, my suggestion, to all the skilled players out there. Start an EG LS to teach people. Get a group of friends and invite a whole bunch of randoms. Make your server the elites. That's just my take on it. AND STOP CHARGING PEOPLE TO GET RELICS! (You wonder why some people are bad... instead of teaching them, you allow them to pay for a carry... Greedy ass mofo's.

My 2 cents... Deuces!

[niwaar]

Typical reply "Get better".

My skill is fine, my point is getting 8 competent people together to play decently is problematic. You actually have to schedule time to run things with people. I feel content should be attainable at anytime and should not be so difficult that you have to have all very good players to do it.

If you think your right and the content is not that hard, please duty finder Titan and let me know who that works out.

There is an MMO out for the type of content that you want. Its called WoW (circa 2012+). A game that has been boiled down to the ability to hit a LFG/LFR/PVP button and be placed in a group that has been automatically buffed up and to "challenge" content that has been watered down so completely that a paddock of trained monkeys could defeat.


An MMORPG is a game that has traditionally required two types of investments to be successful. A time investment and an investment in people. Thus you need to be willing to schedule things with people you have met and fostered relationships in order to be successful. The amount of effort you have to put out in these activities in most "modern" MMORPGs is a lot less than it used to be. For the vast majority of us, FFXIV has given us only a small glimpse of what we used to find so valuable in our gaming experience. Something where hardwork, teamwork and determination all go hand in hand for a victory. I say "only a small glimpse" because there are quite a few of us out here playing this game that desire more of a return to what we had in the past. Where time and challenge were not bad words that people like you complain about. I desire things to work towards and set goals for. I desire a game where I am forced into making new friends and strong relationships with people in order to play the game I enjoy.

Its people like you that forced people like me away from games like WoW, Rift, ToR, etc. The ones that want it all on a plate and just want to "make believe" there is challenge and collect your loot.

My reply wouldn't be "Get Better", but is more like "Get a new Attitude".

[Jadi]

Did you guys really come in to FFXI's and 1.0's successor with the mindset of "Yeah like really... what were they thinking.. SE should make it so there is no teamwork involved.. everyone should win regardless of their ability or knowledge or practice, they should also remove the ability to die.. cuz that sucks."?

Give it some time.. you'll find the difficulty very rewarding in the end. Loot is virtual and trivial.. It feels good for about 5 minutes. it's the accomplishment over a challenge you will take away with you and remember long after you turn the game off.

When Difficult Is Fun -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toVNkuCELpU

[RainStrife]

SOO EASY FOR PEOPLE WHO BUILD FCs around them selves with super geared 8man FC team. MY FC DOES it so EASY CuZ my FC is me and 8 of my best players. Man STFU. Doing the content comes easy for you guys cuz you build teams for it and are constantly at it. Pugs don't have the luxury of having a perma super geared raid team with full best crafted armor with all lvl 3 material stuck in it. They Need to give incentive for geared people to use the Duty finder more if you ask me. But honestly JRPGs have a certain impossibility factor that I and Many other people don't like. Wasn't there some kid that died trying to fight a boss in one of the past FF MMOs? The fight are nearly impossible due to the no recovery factor. Like titan you die get knock off you perma dead=group dead I don't like it one bit.

[Jadi]

Wasn't there some kid that died trying to fight a boss in one of the past FF MMOs?

No, as I remember a shell on Seraph fought Pandemonium Warden for 18 hours and they lost and they posted about how they felt sick on their blog (probably because of the loss after so long an attempt).. the press grabbed that and ran wild stories about how video games are killing kids. It was all bullshit hype.

[Jynxii]

-post-

Cool story? The post had nothing to do with whether or not it was achievable, or how many people could/would/should have been able to do it by now.

Let's get the facts down shall we? Firstly, the initial premise of the thread is "End game is too hard, requires too much precision and communication". Secondly, Darklight gear is i70 while BC is i90 (with CT being i80). CT is meant to be the step BEFORE Coil and the increase on overall ilevel is going to make encounters 'easier' by proximity. Finally, Yoshi claimed that less than 100 people would finish coil by 2.1.


None of that says that players shouldn't be able to clear coil, it just states the difference between ilevel, with a loose explanation why some of the fights are so damn tight and have little room for error. Further, Yoshi's statement implies the end content will be difficult enough that only a very limited amount of players will clear it, so by proximity, one could assume he doesn't expect 99% of the player base to clear Turn 1, 2, 3 and 4 prior to 2.1 either.

I've been clearing BC as well with Darklight and whatever I pick up through drops as well, and I've experienced first hand how tight some of these fights can be, but I also have the foresight to see what difference having i80 gear will make. As I mentioned, Turn4 is incredibly tight, and even an increase of 10dps on each player will make a huge difference during the encounter.

In short, you are correct in saying you do not need i80/i90 gear to clear BC (arguably excluding relic/+1), however it needs mastery over your class, and good communication and coordination, which are things the OP argued against, suggesting such content should not require such things (Arguably, what raiding should be all about). When the gear quality increases, the 'skill quality' can decrease in relation. Of course, those that maximise gear and skill will achieve more than those who only maximise one or the other. How much effort do you put into HM Ifrit with full Darklight and Relic+1 compared to when you were doing it in AF gear and an i45 weapon? What about when you do it in said gear and 'play hard'? There is a massive time difference, right?