Does Anyone Think Crafting is Too Slow?

[Physic]

I never said it was limiting. I said it wasn't fun, it was mindless, and it is too easy to create an automatic botting program to do it.


No, I want to take the crafting system we have now and fix it so that we can retain the positive aspects about it while removing/improving the negative aspects.



Is it too much to ask that this chore be made to be fun to do? I say no.




So then tweak the SP gained so that the players rank up at an appropriate pace, as per what I said about normalized SP/hour vs crafting actions done.




"might" have complaints that it isn't immersive? What's so immersive about what we have now? What's so immersive about pressing "normal synth" a bajillion times in a row? Are these hypothetical complaints somehow more important that the REAL and ACTUAL complaints people have now about the crafting system?

And what does chess have to do with crafting?



Again, hypotheticals. What about all the people who are alienated RIGHT NOW because of this terrible excuse for gameplay.

So do you have a concept for a more fun crafting system that you think the majority of people will enjoy?

[darkstarpoet1]

So do you have a concept for a more fun crafting system that you think the majority of people will enjoy?

no they don't they just want it changed so they can get everything handed to them without working for it. if you work in any skill trade at all you realize that most of training is repetative in nature and you do it for years before you fully learn your trade.

how does a carpenter learn their trade in real life? they drive millions of nails, they cut thousands of boards, and read thousands of blueprints. how does a carpenter not learn their trade? by playing games when they should be learning.

[Rentahamster]

So do you have a concept for a more fun crafting system that you think the majority of people will enjoy?

Not really, I haven't though about that issue as much as others. I do know what I want the system to achieve, however, as I stated before: fun, engaging, difficult, rewarding, logical character progression, logical recipe progression, less redundant item utilization, streamlined, easily accessible/deep and complex at higher levels.

no they don't they just want it changed so they can get everything handed to them without working for it.

I still don't know why you insist on making this claim when I have said repeatedly that I don't want everything handed to me. If anything, I want the system to be harder than it is now. The main point of any change to the crafting system is that it would be more fun to do than it is currently, and that it won't be so susceptible to botting.

how does a carpenter learn their trade in real life? they drive millions of nails, they cut thousands of boards, and read thousands of blueprints. how does a carpenter not learn their trade? by playing games when they should be learning.

This is a game, not real life. Games are fun, first and foremost. We play games to escape real life.

[darkstarpoet1]

I still don't know why you insist on making this claim when I have said repeatedly that I don't want everything handed to me. If anything, I want the system to be harder than it is now. The main point of any change to the crafting system is that it would be more fun to do than it is currently, and that it won't be so susceptible to botting.

i said they not you. there is a whole different scenario between the 2. i agreed earlier in this same thread that i would like it to be more fun, but that using the people won't bot excuse holds no water. the people botting are botting not because it is boring, but because they want to get to max rank as fast as possible. unless you made it level so fast that you could level faster than a botter then the same people that bot now will continue to bot regardless of the fun factor.

sure i want to go out and kill dodo's to learn how to craft a shirt. i didn't say i wouldn't like a different type of crafting, but they'd have to think before they changed it to something completely different that what a craft truly is.

[Rentahamster]

i said they not you. there is a whole different scenario between the 2.

You direct quoted Physic, who was direct quoting me, therefore including myself in the reference to "they".

using the people won't bot excuse holds no water. the people botting are botting not because it is boring, but because they want to get to max rank as fast as possible.

Indeed people want to bot to get to max rank with little effort, that's always the case. What I am concerned with, is the fact that it is so easy to program a bot to do this. All you have to do is basically program your third party botting program to just keep pressing "enter" over and over again.

If the crafting process took some actual strategy and thought to complete successfully, then it would be much more difficult to program a bot to replicate those functions.

[Physic]

You direct quoted Physic, who was direct quoting me, therefore including myself in the reference to "they".



Indeed people want to bot to get to max rank with little effort, that's always the case. What I am concerned with, is the fact that it is so easy to program a bot to do this. All you have to do is basically program your third party botting program to just keep pressing "enter" over and over again.

If the crafting process took some actual strategy and thought to complete successfully, then it would be much more difficult to program a bot to replicate those functions.

heres one of the problems, when crafting was more difficult, people complained, so they made it easier on release, when a lot of people still didnt understand, they made it even easier, and made standard the hands down best way to craft, with almost no risk. I dont think people want a challenging or entertaining crafting system, you and i might, but i doubt the rest of people do.

Also some people just genuinely like the current crafting.

But if there was an actual idea, that people could get behind, maybe it could work

[Rentahamster]

heres one of the problems, when crafting was more difficult, people complained, so they made it easier on release, when a lot of people still didnt understand, they made it even easier, and made standard the hands down best way to craft, with almost no risk.

Crafting wasn't more difficult. If anything, it was easier, but with slower SP gain. You're confusing "more difficult" with "slower".

Back then, all you had to do was spam "rapid synthesis". The mechanic was exactly the same boring system we have now. The only thing that's changed is that we now spam "normal" instead of "rapid". There was no risk with spamming rapid, either.

The only way crafting was "more difficult" back then was because SP gain was not as high as it is now, and you needed more SP to gain a rank. The menu system was also still screwed up and with many redundant steps so that it took much longer to complete a synth back then than it does now. Also, item stacks were less back then as well, an the UI lag was much worse.

That doesn't change the fact that at its core, the crafting system has always been "press 'enter' a bajillion times until you get to rank 50".

Also some people just genuinely like the current crafting.

Also, some people just genuinely don't like the current crafting.

[Physic]

Crafting wasn't more difficult. If anything, it was easier, but with slower SP gain. You're confusing "more difficult" with "slower".

Back then, all you had to do was spam "rapid synthesis". The mechanic was exactly the same boring system we have now. The only thing that's changed is that we now spam "normal" instead of "rapid". There was no risk with spamming rapid, either.

The only way crafting was "more difficult" back then was because SP gain was not as high as it is now, and you needed more SP to gain a rank. The menu system was also still screwed up and with many redundant steps so that it took much longer to complete a synth back then than it does now. Also, item stacks were less back then as well, an the UI lag was much worse.

That doesn't change the fact that at its core, the crafting system has always been "press 'enter' a bajillion times until you get to rank 50".



Also, some people just genuinely don't like the current crafting.

rapid was pretty easy, but standard as it is now is even easier. Most peoples success rates actually went up drastically with the standard changes.

But this is not really what im getting at.

let me be clear, i would love a more entertaining crafting system

But i think many people just want it to be simple and easy, they are willing to invest time, while they watch movies, or talk on the phone, they will resist any changes that make it more complex. just like some people want the battle system to be less intensive, because its just a means to an ends.

also some people like the system.
I bring this up, because before you can get the developers to think about a new crafting system, there has to be an overwelming demand for it, and you have to come up with something that people who like the old crafting system like better, and somehow diminish the voices of people who want it to be even simpler.

So yeah, its gonna come down to an idea that a lot of people really love, and would want, i have pondered this issue, and i havent come up with a good solution, maybe you can

[darkstarpoet1]

You direct quoted Physic, who was direct quoting me, therefore including myself in the reference to "they".

i do apologize. i went back and looked at my post and can see where you thought i was referring to you. that was not my intention. i was talking about in general. we all have many major complaints about this game. we may not agree on issues, but can agree things need to be done. i just do not want more knee jerk reactions without thinking the final completion through first. yes, changes are needed, but we can't even agree on the direction to fix it and have no idea what they have planned already as far as future content.

most of our suggestions at this point are all looking short term because we don't even know which direction the game in general is going. with the new group in charge if we told them we want major changes they could make it to taking out your needle and throwing rocks at dodo's to rank up. we have to be careful when we say we do want drastic changes because we have no clue of what drastic changes are to them(auto-attack for example). i voted for drastic change last poll, but had i known what they meant by drastic changes i have seen so far i would have voted no to most of them on a change by change basis.

[Rentahamster]

with the new group in charge if we told them we want major changes they could make it to taking out your needle and throwing rocks at dodo's to rank up.

No, they won't because that's obviously retarded.