Does Anyone Think Crafting is Too Slow?

[Abriael]

Why punish players just to 'slow' down the amount of crafters? Everything should be fun and people get to choose which fun things they want to do.

Punish? If you don't enjoy crafting and still do it it isn't the system that's punishing you. You're whipping yourself all on your own. There are other ways to make a profit in this game, and afford the services of crafters easily if you don't enjoy it. The monetary relationship between crafters and non-crafters is actually very balanced in this game.

To have a working economy the amount of crafters needs to be limited. If crafting becomes for everyone, supply ends up heavily outweighting demand and crafting stops being profitable at all. Congratulations. You just created an actually dead market with an exaggerated oversupply that will never be purchased.

In any case, there's *no way* to create a crafting that's for everyone. No matter how fun and tactical the minigame is (and actually FFXIV's is one of the most fun in the market).
No minigame, no matter how clever, can survive the 1000th time it's performed, fun-wise, for most people. Repeatitiveness always comes into the picture. There's no way to avoid it. Even having no minigame at all can't escape from this simple rule (and is actually worse, since it's much more repeatitive).
People, for instance, praised a lot Vanguard's crafting minigame. That's the ones that didn't actually craft much, because that (very well designed) minigame becomes a serious chore (even more than FFXIV's) after the 1000th time you do it.
Crafting is a repeatitive process by definition. There is no escaping that.

[EdenT]

I think this one is much like other systems in Final Fantasy XIV - there are solid foundations in place, but the player base have not been equipped with enough information to comprehend and enjoy. I understand how the system could appear as slow to someone disinterested in the mechanics of crafting, but disagree with speed changing on the grounds that the pace is relatively on par with solo fighting. Group-based crafting is imminent and will change this somewhat...

Once people further understand each step in the crafting process, there will be less "It's broken, boring and slow" and more emphasis on producing higher quality items and increasing crafting efficiency.

Someone commented on just spamming enter on standard synthesis. If this is one's approach to synthesis then they are doomed to begin with. I don't want to jump on the "Don't play it then" bandwagon, but there is more depth to crafting than most are implying, and I don't believe the process should be streamlined for the sake of players who are attention deficit.

To the comments of adding time-based reactions and command input - isn't this going to end up the same? I personally think the appeal would also soon wear off and it would become tedious to have to pay further attention to hitting the same "Sweet Spot" each time.

Perhaps a solution (based on commentary) is to make everyone's crafting tools glowing, summon a dragon from the crystal each successful Standard Synthesis and introduce a Dance Dance Revolution style reactive prompt in which several keypresses must be entered simultaneously to fill the "void" between actions. Also - upon each successful synthesis a moogle should appear and /slap you from behind (to an appropriate victory theme).

Crafting is not and should not be instant gratification. Crafting is also not a side-venture. It is a primary component of this game, and can be a rewarding experience to players who take the time to learn and understand it, and subsequently begin to manipulate the market.

[Tiraelina]

Repetitive and mindless are seperate things, XIV's crafting is both of these. Don't confuse repetitive for being the reason it isn't fun when you have no need to look at the screen to do any of it, the entire system is asking for players to turn to botting. I could have r50 in any craft I wanted without realising what I'm doing ingame providing I have materials. DoL is also one of the classes that turns absolutely mindless with no dynamics the higher it gets, EVERYTHING is 1 of 2 spots.

EDIT: If you are doing anything other than spamming enter on standard you are setting yourself up to take a disproportionately long time to gain ranks compared to some who was, and is now making better items than you and gaining more guild marks.

[Abriael]

Repetitive and mindless are seperate things, XIV's crafting is both of these. Don't confuse repetitive for being the reason it isn't fun when you have no need to look at the screen to do any of it, the entire system is asking for players to turn to botting. I could have r50 in any craft I wanted without realising what I'm doing ingame providing I have materials. DoL is also one of the classes that turns absolutely mindless with no dynamics the higher it gets, EVERYTHING is 1 of 2 spots.

EDIT: If you are doing anything other than spamming enter on standard you are setting yourself up to take a disproportionately long time to gain ranks compared to some who was, and is now making better items than you and gaining more guild marks.

I'm afraid you're not very clear on the meaning of "mindless". Sure, for skilling many use mostly standard, but by using the skills available (makers muse and so forth) they can aim for higher level recipes, getting a much higher SP turnout with just a small loss of time per recipe. The fact that people are given the option to use skills to make their crafting process more efficent alone completely voids the theory about it being "mindless".
Spamming standard and nothing else (using no skills) is not nearly the most efficent way to skillup any craft.

OR if you're a fan of doing things quick, you can use hasty hand, and the slowness of crafting goes bye bye. In that case the problem is removed to the root, since the system not only isn't "mindless", but it's also pretty flexible.

What's "mindless" is not noticing that there's more to crafting than leveling up (leveling up for the sake of leveling up is seriously laughable. Crafting is there to produce items, not to have another class to level to 50), and when actually creating items to be sold, FFXIV's crafting gives you much more control over quality than basically every other MMORPG out there, if you're willing to not craft in a "mindless" way, and learn tne ins and outs of the system.

There's nothing "mindless" in FFXIV's crafting. The fact that you turn it into a mindless process because you want to be faster (or better, because you perceive as faster a method that actually isn't) doesn't make it mindless in itself.

Maybe the reason why you think it's "mindless" is because you don't get it, like 99% of the people that bash it without even knowing half of it, because all they want is to get to 50.

Again, crafting isn't for everyone. It should *not* be for everyone. if you're leveling it for the sake of leveling it, then quite evidently it isn't for you. For people that enjoy crafting for it's actual purpose (creating items and playing the economy) the crafting system in FFXIV gives more control than any other in the market and has nothing to do with "mindless", as it's actually quite tactical, while not being overly complex.

[Chardrizard]

I am fine with repetitive-ness if its fun, meaning when i get sick of it, i will take a break, but.. i will miss it and will do it again after a while. All i know is most of my r50s crafter friends always ends up saying "Thanks God its done" after they hit r50 and never looked back, There are of course others that started to rank up another craft but that is only because there are nothing to do ingame right now that is worth doing other than crafting.

[Seif]

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

[Physic]

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

you are smoking crack, ffxi crafting is not entertaining, and requires a trip to a distant AH. if you want to bring that up you can say that this game requires you to go mine in distant caves with agro monsters to get scale bugs, or kill hungry wolves to get buffalo skins. Knowledge of what element is what direction is not an entertaining facet of crafting, im sorry. Just by the definition of interaction, ffxiv is more interactive, more input of the user that has an effect on the outcome is interactivity, as far as planning, equipping the right gear, and skills to deal with whatever type of craft you are doing, and the results you are trying to get, is way more strategic/knowlege based than letting random do it for you.

You may like ffxi crafting system, but saying it requires more knowlege, is more interactive, or is more fun collecting materials is complete bullshit, and i think you know this.

[Seif]

you are smoking crack, ffxi crafting is not entertaining, and requires a trip to a distant AH. if you want to bring that up you can say that this game requires you to go mine in distant caves with agro monsters to get scale bugs, or kill hungry wolves to get buffalo skins. Knowledge of what element is what direction is not an entertaining facet of crafting, im sorry. Just by the definition of interaction, ffxiv is more interactive, more input of the user that has an effect on the outcome is interactivity, as far as planning, equipping the right gear, and skills to deal with whatever type of craft you are doing, and the results you are trying to get, is way more strategic/knowlege based than letting random do it for you.

You may like ffxi crafting system, but saying it requires more knowlege, is more interactive, or is more fun collecting materials is complete bullshit, and i think you know this.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous.

I guess I should clear that up a bit.
Personally I think crafting in any MMO including XI is horrible. Because it has always been horrible I don't think it should be given a free pass as something that doesn't have to be fun.

Yes I do like crafting in XI more than in XIV but frankly this just means I hate it a bit less.

I don't agree at all that because there is lag SE shouldn't consider adding gameplay to crafting. There are plenty of MMO's out there that require twitch-precision gameplay for good teamwork. Crafting is always a solo activity so that makes it even easier to be made into a lag-free experience.

In general I think the MMO crowd is willing to put up with significantly lower standards than single player games have.
I was pulled into the world of XI because the story makes it feel at times just like a single player game with a real story with a beginning and an ending. When I've looked around for something similar after XI all the games seem like just grind-treadmills with no goal to work towards. When I ask my MMO playing friends if their games have a story with an end that's achievable they just look at me like I'm trying to ask if aliens exist.

This is partly the reason why I'm worried that SE is looking so hard at other MMOs as an example to work towards. They used to be the company that paved the way for something other developers couldn't even dream of.

[EdenT]

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

I played XI since launch and strongly disagree that the system required more in research and adventure. There are plenty of crafting materials in XIV that take some adventuring to obtain and research is again a necessity.

One thing that differs (which I have commented on elsewhere in forums) is that FFXI used to give you in-game clues about what to craft at your current rank etc and it would be nice for XIV to adopt a little of this and bring more info into the game itself. I'd prefer to remain in Eorzea to obtain information than having to alt-tab to a third party site with forced popup advertising. This would increase the level of "Immersion" that everyone keeps talking about.

SE need to understand the power of information. It is the MOST valuable commodity in our human (and Eorzean) existence.

Oh...and any MMO is a full time job if you want to maximise your return. It is not a lucrative enough expedition otherwise...

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Oh...and any MMO is a full time job if you want to maximise your return. It is not a lucrative enough expedition otherwise...

And this is the real flaw with our player bse. people who have this mindset.
it is a video game nothing more.

off qoute, yoshi said that the timer in itself has no rel purpose. it really doesn't since people click fast. A real tedious crafting in any mmo is ffxi. it took so much just to get .1 or even a .2. and the game gave you hints but of stuff to advnced for you level. Also those who keep ensiting my opinion is invalid based on what you think you know about me, please stop. I do not care how long it takes to level up, or how many crafts. Just gives me stuff to do like farm, so some minor crafts if needed or level another craft for mats. I have yet spent a gil on any craft i've tried. Which is more then I can say about ffxi where i spent 300K just to get cooking to level 12.