What WAR needs; compilation

[RhazeCain]

Well, it's kind of fun to read/write these kinds of threads... But ultimately it goes nowhere. If they do decide to change something in terms of warrior abilities, then it'll be to some designer's vision -- not ours.

What has more chance of being fruitful (though still practically zero), is to consider the higher level overview:

Defensively: PLD > WAR
Offensively: WAR > PLD

Currently these are true. And they should be. It's part of the identity. But the argument that so many on these forums try to make (though not in so many words) is that the first is too large a difference. Possibly the 2nd is too small a difference as well.

Currently we can add 1 more as well:
Utility: PLD > WAR

This could go either way I think, without compromising the identity of either class. (True because Shield Bash and Spirits Within mostly, as compared to ... Holmgang)


Defensively: PLD > WAR
Offensively: WAR > PLD
Utility: PLD > WAR

So when would you prefer a WAR and when a PLD?
Personally, I'd prefer to be a WAR in Amdapor Keep right now than a PLD (ilvl 70-90 gear). In other words, when you vastly overpower the content. PLD fine of course.
PLD preferred when the content is more difficult. When there is serious danger of dieing to boss hits on tank. Currently, I wouldn't even attempt to put a WAR tank on Titan HM or coil t4 Dreadnaughts. WAR can do ok as a 2nd tank on coil t1-4. Maybe even WAR/WAR on t1/t2 at some point, though I haven't tried that yet. But PLD is favored because less dmg taken & utility.

Current: "PLD always at least OK, sometimes necessary - including a few of the toughest fights. WAR usually OK, slightly preferred in easy content"
Please change to something like: "PLD & WAR both always OK" or "PLD for X, and WAR for Y" where X and Y are similarly desirable.

[Roxus]

Changes to Warrior that could make the class better:

1. [Defiance] - Keep it the way it is, but remove 5% of the damage reduction for every stack of "Wrath" you have. This way you make a choice of holding the stacks or using it.

2. [Bloodbath] - Add an effect (into the trait) where consuming all 5 stacks of wrath will grant a moderate Regen based on 10% of your MAX HP. Of course this is only available while Bloodbath is.

3. Because Defiance is changed to reduce Damage reduction upon stacking "Wrath", the following skills need a rework:
[Unchained] - Rename this to "Rage", increase the cooldown to 5 minutes. Instant cast, for 10 seconds your HP cannot fall below 1 and all outside healing is reduced by 25%. All attack modifier effects are doubled in this state.
[Steel Cyclone] - Additional effect when cast in front of the target: Blind. Enmity gained is increased by 10% for 5 seconds.
[Inner Beast] - Reduces damage taken by 5% if used at full HP. (Additional Effect)

4. [Butcher's Block] - Increase amount of HP restored by actions by 5% for 10 seconds. (Additional Effect)

5. [Foresight] - Give the ability to parry at a 40% rate (Trait)

6. [Vengeance] - Increases amount healed by 10% if standing still. (Additional Effect)

7. [Holmgang] - Reduces damage taken by 10% for caster and target. (Additional Effect)


Of course the job right now is playable as is, but I personally feel unrewarded when I use half these skills. It feels like I have to use several skills to feel like I am a tank.

[MaFi0s0]

5. Rename Bloodshower.
Because why is it called Bloodshower if a shower is usually quicker than a bath.

[Hitokirinomad]

Roxus,

I kind of like those ideas, but I wouldn't reduce healing for Rage (PLD equiv gives pure invuln, why would the buff be a purely inferior version of that), the Inner Beast additional effect would basically either never be triggered, or ensure IB is overheal. Steel Cyclone needs to be an AOE bind+ blind, and Holmgang would NEVER be used if it reduced damage on the target. That's..the opposite of what you want in every encounter. But overall it's a good set of ideas.

[Roxus]

Roxus,

I kind of like those ideas, but I wouldn't reduce healing for Rage (PLD equiv gives pure invuln, why would the buff be a purely inferior version of that), the Inner Beast additional effect would basically either never be triggered, or ensure IB is overheal. Steel Cyclone needs to be an AOE bind+ blind, and Holmgang would NEVER be used if it reduced damage on the target. That's..the opposite of what you want in every encounter. But overall it's a good set of ideas.

My reasoning is purely to offer trade-offs for the gains this set would give Warriors, according to developers Warriors are already "good enough, l2p" I am offering things that require combos to completely work. The reason Rage reduces healing is to differentiate from Hallowed Ground, where reduced healing + low hp = LB buildup. Holmgang was a way to offer scaling damage mitigation to the warrior without just copying the Paladin one. Ideally it would be used for very hard hitting skills and Holmgang can be removed via MNK "One-Ilm Punch".In my opinion Inner Beast is good as is, I just added something that wouldn't waste overheals. I think Warriors have potential, but ultimately they will be inferior with static mitigation (Current skillset).

[Gardes]

What I want out mercy stroke:
>Make the basic cooldown 60 second (warrior trait is 60 seconds, 120 sec non trait I think)
>Make the enhanced mercy stroke trait modify the effect into (heals user 20% of max hp if monster dies within 5 seconds after mercy stroke is used, heals 10% if monster does not die within 5 seconds)
>Non warriors that can use this basically has a 60 second cooldown mercy stroke and has to kill the monster with the skill to gain that heal.

[Darthvoltrius]

Ideas for Warrior Changes/General Additions
(gonna be a bunch of posts due to the 1,000 char limitation)
Understand that this comes from someone who played warrior in 1.23 and loved it, i find current war to be very fun but when i played pld i noticed the difference immediately (and fell asleep because pld is just a snorefest for me personally, i even fell asleep tanking in coil lol)but some changes have to be made for reals.

If they want us to be a more offensive oriented tank, then change sub classes to pgl and lnc, currently pld sub is meh and with proper changes adding lnc instead of gla for subclass would make war more self sustainable

It's stupid that as a offensive oriented tank that PLD can keep up with us on dmg, like really...? I don't mind PLD having a full arsenal of defensive abilities, that's fine. In fact if they add even more then no problem, but give us an edge, a reason to bring a WAR to the battle, give us a clear damage advantage over PLD and not simply ~5% more dmg. (whoopdefuckin doo)

[Darthvoltrius]

Our main problem is survivability/mitigation and high risk/no real reward (which should be more dmg by a clear mile than pld but nope!)

Before you get your panties in a bunch, a friendly reminder of all the mitigation/buffs/utility PLD has

PLD:
1. Static -20% damage taken
2. Able to Parry also at 23% dmg if not mistaken
3. -20% (Rampart)
4. -23% (Block)(26% i believe with shield +1 or allagan shield)
5. 60% Block (Bullwark)
6. -40% (Sentinel)
7. Access to self Stoneskin (10% HP)
8. Strength Down
9. Silence
10. Stun (6 seconds recast)
11. Blind
12. +30% Healing (Convalescence)
13. Invincibility (Hallowed Ground)
14. lolAwareness
15. lolForesight
16. Fight or Flight (great ability with no downside)
17. No -damage simply for putting on the tank stance <--- my personal biggest wtf
18. Bloodbath (stack this with fight or flight and you're getting decent self heal and just continue with your 1-2-3 combo)

[Darthvoltrius]

WAR:
1. lolForesight
2. Bloodbath (if self heals are our thing then you gotta integrrate this to defiance, boost the self heal return or add it to all of our weaponskills for constant self heal)
3. Inner Beast (integrate a shield of sort)
4. Storms Eye (reduces slash resistance, which helps with WAR and PLD dps/hp recovered -50% seems only useful for future pvp unless they add a boss that heals itself by a lot and requires this debuff)
5. Storms Path (gimp self heal every 7.5 seconds, would rather do butchers block or storms eye combo, simply doesn't cure enough against incoming dmg)
6. Defiance (remove the -25% dmg dealt so we can do more dmg like we're supposed to and help with self heals)
7. Brutal Swing (cant stun bosses that matter)
8. Berserk (Remove the stupid pacification)
9. Mercy Stroke (on a boss fight we need those heals NOW not at the killshot which defeats the purpose)
10. Thrill of Battle
11. Second Wind
12. lolfeatherfoot (unreliable)
13. Convalescence

[Darthvoltrius]

Doesn't have to be all of them but some of them would help out a lot, these are just ideas that can help change WAR.

Let us be parry masters like before. Make parry % value higher for warriors in nature by making STR give a larger boost than any other class (i'd like to go str over vit on stat points thank you very much)

Introduce an offhand for Warriors or 2 handers in general like for WHM(Thyrus)/DRG(Gae Bolg)/BLM(Stardust rod) like "Grips" in FF11 that will give them additional stats or new ability/passives? Hell they could even add like a "Relic grip" or crafted grips.
Perhaps something like:

1. Grip with STR+/Determination +/Skill Speed +
2. Grip with VIT+/Parry +/Dex+
3. Grip with unique ability like "Double attack" (would give us a unique ability which doubles the next weaponskill/abilities dmg on a large cooldown like 5min)
4. Grip with a passive trait, something like example "Retaliation"(counter's damage at a certain % or something) or "Enhanced Berserk"