Don't pull it if you can't hold it!

[Blissa]

I am a i94 whm and I love big pulls. But for the love of god don't make big pulls if you cant hold the mobs. There is nothing worse as a whm then trying to heal ping pong damage. Or worse yet I die because I am spamming cure 2 to try and keep everyone alive.

[Marxam]

The counter to this argument is if you can't heal through big pulls then I won't do it. I normally do big pulls, BL hard for example only needs 4 mob pulls to do the entire dungeon (not including boss). But I've been in instances where I do my normal thing and pull big and suddenly I find myself burning through my cool downs too quickly because:

a) the healer can't keep up
b) the dps are too slow
c) a and b

Keeping hate is not that hard. For wars its flash, OP, SC and for pld it flash and RoH, though I find holding hate as pld in large pulls (6+ mobs) to be a little harder since they lack the aoe enmity that wars have.

TS;DR Yea I agree with the op.

[ZDamned]

Blissa, your not telling any tank anything they don't know. Sorry if you played with a bad one, but talking to THAT tank is much more effective than trying to PSA all tanks who likely CAN hold onto a large group.

PS: If you died in Brayflox, please try to tank it yourself, and see how frustrating it can be when Paralyze procs 5 times in a row on you, and your unable to hit a CD, or an Overpower/Flash in time.

[ariaandkia]

Blissa, your not telling any tank anything they don't know. Sorry if you played with a bad one, but talking to THAT tank is much more effective than trying to PSA all tanks who likely CAN hold onto a large group.

PS: If you died in Brayflox, please try to tank it yourself, and see how frustrating it can be when Paralyze procs 5 times in a row on you, and your unable to hit a CD, or an Overpower/Flash in time.

I kind of have to agree with both sides here. On one hand, tanks SHOULD know. On the other hand, from personal experience, most tanks that do dungeons don't know (I don't consider the scenario "dungeons" as dungeons-those tanks tend to be good).

As for bray, it can be frustrating but at the same time, tank should be planning accordingly. Even worse is when I'm curing paralyze right away or when it doesn't even proc and they still can't hold aggro at all. Had one tank just stand there attacking one enemy using his aoes on one single enemy while the party was fighting the rest of the enemies. I dropped the tank to save the party. Tank blamed me for dying and thought that the party was the "worst party ever". Same tank that didn't realize that our BLM was afk at the start of the duty and who thought the BLM was attacking the mobs. (Despite no fire explosions or ice explosions or any explosions). Where our Lancer was the only DPS we had. Both me and DPS noticed but tank was clueless.

First time, tank held aggro at least so we lasted a good minute before my MP finally died from spamming cure 2 to keep the tank alive. Granted, the lancer was kind of watching his aggro from what I saw and wasn't randomly AoE'ing or anything and was even attacking same target as the tank.

Second time, tank completely lost aggro. First to the BLM then even to the Lancer who was probably trying to save me from all the enemies that suddenly rushed me. Tank just stands there aoe'ing ONE target while the rest are everywhere else.

That is just one of the many. For every good run, I'll get 3 decent runs and 10-20 bad runs.

It has gotten so bad that I've learned to tank on my THM/BLM/ARC/SMN/CON/WHM/SCH. Notice anything wrong there with that class lineup and theoretical ability to tank?

[MithrasInvictus]

I just gotta say that holding a big pull becomes exponentially more difficult if a DPS launches something powerful right off the bat, especially if both DPS rage into different mobs. You're too busy trying to wrangle that /those mob/s and its/their new-found blood lust, and the effort to pull them back eats into parts of your combo rotation which would otherwise be divvied out across several different mobs to increase your enmity against them. When things turn south, there has usually been a series of unfortunate events which led to such happening.

[Yumi_umi]

It has gotten so bad that I've learned to tank on my THM/BLM/ARC/SMN/CON/WHM/SCH. Notice anything wrong there with that class lineup and theoretical ability to tank?

Idk about the other classes but tanking as a whm is actually pretty easy lol. Like during the first mass pull in brayflox hm, if tank decides to stop at ramp i'll gladly just stand still and heal away/ dps regardless if i'm eating the gob's aoe explosions lol.
They barely hurt and i can still heal everyone for a good 3-5mins even if i'm being attacked by a few enemies that the tank failed to pick up. I just mark them so that they will hopefully see it.
Once your hp passes that 5-6k threshold you'll see how godly stoneskin is in these level 50 dungeons. XD
Quick yoshi! Put a gear cap on!

[RyuDragnier]

This topic thread just reminds me of why I don't go for big pulls while tanking, it requires a large amount of trust in the DPS and healer to do their job well and fast. Outside of people you know, I've noticed way too many people who are unable to do their jobs that well in DF, so I tend to stray away from big pulls.

Also, just because this brings to mind something...when the hell did speed runs through gathering large amounts of mobs become a thing here? I did a run with some Japanese players and they grabbed small mob groups, we burned them down, went forward, and repeated all the way through Haukke Manor HM. It was one of the fastest runs I had been through in the place simply because they didn't overpull, they grabbed the groups that already link to each other (at most had 4 enemies on us), and we go through with the place with 6-7 minutes left on the protect. When did the thought of larger pulls = faster runs become so prevalent?

[Woggers]

Amen sister!!!! I absolutely can't stand it when a tank says speed run, and after my very first flare I get full hate on EVERYTHING!!! Kill me naow!!! ><

[Nabian]

First to those talking about being paralyzed...if your getting paralyzed your not dodging AoE well enough, which means your taking too much dmg which means the wipe is most likely your fault in the first place.

Secondly...I never do large pulls unless I'm with a premade and its been stated already that we're going to be speed running the dungeon.

Lastly, to the guy who talked about Haukke Manor (SP?) Pulling small groups is faster if the dps is not capable of burning through large AoE dmg. Hence why I only run speedruns with premades. In many cases if you don't have the right group composition large pulls does nothing but add more stress to the healer and tank. It all depends on the skill of the group and the group composition.

[lxSch]

The funny thing about speed runs is people not understanding what they do. Like warriors rotating butchers block to hold enmity and using inner beast while at full life. And paladins circling like a chicken and not bothering to use flash. I don't know what do they expect to happen, bust is a fact - most of blms in df are afraid to use flare. I got a good habit of standing close to tank before i start healing so he can flash mobs away from me. Maybe it's some kind of reactive tanking - don't flash/overpower until you loose enmity. In the easier content bards can hold aoe enmity and tank very well (no joke) - let them tank and you should be fine.
But more often i get tanks who pull 2-3 groups and dps kill them 1 by 1 - because this (and many other weird things) is what people usually do in the duty finder.