WAR in BC. Do we need it?

[Gamemako]

Warriors are better 4 man dungeon tanks because they require LESS healing than paladins when the incoming DPS is lower than 300-400 dps (depending on how damage focused the warrior is gear wise - aswell as using IB often).

In a realistic-case scenario (3 IB per minute, 20% overheal per IB), the most strength-built WAR is overtaken by PLD in total time-weighted mitigation at around 360 DPS. A VIT-focused WAR is overtaken around 300 DPS. Perfect IB spam (assume zero overheal, 4 uses per minute) to around 390 for VIT and 525 for STR. This includes nearly every ability -- a few were neglected for poor data and extremely limited effect (Featherfoot vs. Bulwark, differences in cross-class Awareness, Convalesce, Mercy Stroke, Foresight). Note, however, that there isn't really any content for this. AK and TWP are epic facerolls by the time you get to the gear used in this comparison. You will be overgeared for AK by the time you hit the lower-heal case. The difference is going to be pretty small either way in 4-man content.

[Giantbane]

Warriors are better 4 man dungeon tanks because they require LESS healing than paladins when the incoming DPS is lower than 300-400 dps (depending on how damage focused the warrior is gear wise - aswell as using IB often). So not only do warriors do slightly more DPS they also require less healing in most 4 man dungeon situations. Warriors start to fall way behind when it comes to most 8 man content (well really just HM titan and most of Coil - and the gap can get huge)

In a real world scenario, you're not going to be able to IB much save from infuriate because you'll be doing flash/overpower a lot on trash packs. Hell, you'll be lucky if you even get to use your maim combo much if you're trying to hold threat from relic/relic+1 DPS. So 4 man content doesn't seem so cut and dry to me.

However, overpower is better than flash at AoE agro, so we do have that important advantage at least.

[Edward_Newgate]

I hate to be a downer, but I'd say the larger question is, is there a benefit to being a warrior at all right now? The answer I keep coming to is no.

Yeah I gave up on my Warrior.

Started leveling up the Paladin, I have all my level 50 DL gear ready so I don't mind much. The Warrior is such a let down at end game, well after Garuda.

[Someonewithclap]

First of all, if you had to buy your Titan run in any fashion, your probably not ready for Coil. Warriors may not be ideal, but they can MT the Pimals just fine. They are also capable of OT'ing in coil, again not ideal, but capable.

[Paikis]

First of all, if you had to buy your Titan run in any fashion, your probably not ready for Coil. Warriors may not be ideal, but they can MT the Pimals just fine. They are also capable of OT'ing in coil, again not ideal, but capable.

I've main tanked everything up to turn 3 so far. no problems.

[Someonewithclap]

I've main tanked everything up to turn 3 so far. no problems.

Exactly, while my FC just started last week and are only on Turn 2, everything except turn 5 has and can be done with a warrior. No one has legitimately done 5 yet so thats irrelevent.

[Tronic]

First of all, if you had to buy your Titan run in any fashion, your probably not ready for Coil. Warriors may not be ideal, but they can MT the Pimals just fine. They are also capable of OT'ing in coil, again not ideal, but capable.

I think you're missing the point; he had trouble finding PUGs to accept him. And even if they did, how probable is it that you will kill Titan with a PUG? The chances are slim: DF pugs are very unlikely to kill titan. Mhor Dona PUGs take only 1 tank for every 2 tanks out there who need the fight. And if you're making a party, and need to choose a tank, and there's a surplus of them begging to go, and PLDs outnumber WARs 2 to 1 on all servers so there will probably be a PLD available if there is a WAR available, which will you choose? The WAR or the PLD? Unless you know the guy, or the WAR is way overgeared compared to the PLD, you'll take the PLD. That WAR will have to rely on friends/FC to take him, buy his way out, or bash his head against the wall 1000000 times hoping one of them will miraculously net him a kill.

This week I went to BC 3 nights, each time with a different group. 2 of those I got in because I created the PUGs, and one of them was with my FC and I practically had to beg them to take me. We got to Caduceus, got close to killing him, but didn't. The common thread in all 3 nights of raiding: "omg WARs are squishy tanks and mana sponges, if we had had a pally we would've won". I heard it from healers and from DPS, and even from a fellow warrior (we were both in full dl + some myth + relic in that run). And indeed, we often wiped not because of a fuck up (there were many of those, to be sure), but because healers just couldn't keep the WAR alive. We always got to the point where we had nailed the procedure, but bad RNG pwned us every time. So, moral of the story: my pld is lvl 47 and the nightmare is nearly over.

[Pavetl]

First of all, if you had to buy your Titan run in any fashion, your probably not ready for Coil.

Well, I didn't want to get in too much detail because this is not the point of my post. But just fyi, I knew the fight by heart. Actually, the guys I made the run with had to make it twice because two of their BRDs died in the first try after phaes 4. I never died and I was hit once or twice by a plume, but nothing more. If I had to buy it was because not a single local PUG wanted to have a WAR and all the FC members with relic or experience in the fight are so disperse doing their stuff that being able to assemble them in one night was complicated (and of course DF is out of the question).

[Logic4u]

First of all, if you had to buy your Titan run in any fashion, your probably not ready for Coil. Warriors may not be ideal, but they can MT the Pimals just fine. They are also capable of OT'ing in coil, again not ideal, but capable.

I think you missed the point. The reason he bought it was due to public perception.

[KoujiMoreno]

I think you missed the point. The reason he bought it was due to public perception.

Dem feels....

I'm in that boat

Half tempted to just drop my relic quest for WAR and redo it with Paladin. I feel like I could get it by the time I could get it for WAR.