Will There Ever be Open Dungeons?

[Renik]

They are referring to things like SKY, where it was a zone you go go into. 3 to 20 linkshells (FC's of ffxi) would be in there all fighting over the same 4 or 5 pop trash mobs so they could farm the pop items they needed to spawn the Bosses in the zone. Where you spent hours a day trying to just claim a pop trash mob from another Linkshell. And linkshells actually had people that just wondered out specifically to claim pop trash mobs from other linkshells. You also camped other linkshells on NM's so that if they wiped you could claim it from them.... Same thing on world bosses like fafnir where linkshells would camp in the event the LS that got the claim would wipe. And linkshells would claim stuff, then kite it around the zone while they made phone calls and the rest of their Linkshell logged on etc.

If you like that kind of competition.... But I don't miss it.

Yeah wating 40min as DPS to do the same instance over and over, just to find people who will treat you even worse than an rival linkshell would do in ffxi, is 1000 times better than (useful and funny) open world content like dungeons or world bosses.
I was trying to be sarcastic.

I'm waiting for this kind of content, if SE keep releasing just intanced content i will leave soon, you may have some bad memories from FFXI, but there are a lot of FFXI players here, and i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels betrayed by SE for designing this game to be comfortable just for wow ppl.

[Yucie]

Yeah wating 40min as DPS to do the same instance over and over, just to find people who will treat you even worse than an rival linkshell would do in ffxi, is 1000 times better than (useful and funny) open world content like dungeons or world bosses.
I was trying to be sarcastic.

I'm waiting for this kind of content, if SE keep releasing just intanced content i will leave soon, you may have some bad memories from FFXI, but there are a lot of FFXI players here, and i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels betrayed by SE for designing this game to be comfortable just for wow ppl.

I agree. Open-world dungeons and zones that are like giant raids that feel perilous, dangerous, and otherwise make me fear for my existence would be lovely again. It doesn't have to be EVERY piece of content.. but a few at least.

[Balbanes]

They are referring to things like SKY, (snip)
If you like that kind of competition.... But I don't miss it.

Sore about Sky, huh?

No, that's not what I was specifically talking about, but that's the general basic idea for endgame type raids in an open fashion.

However, I was really meaning things along the lines of Quicksand Caves, Castle Oztroja, The Boyahda Tree. But yeah, also stuff for Endgame too.

[Nahara]

Important Stuff

If memory serves, SE is trying to specifically NOT do this. It was a major headache in XI and it would be a major headache in XIV. I don't miss it and don't want it.

The ONLY way I could see something like this working is if it's like a giant FATE or series of FATEs that lots of people could participate in and get equal rewards from. But then you'd probably have the same problem as the Odin and Behemoth FATEs: too many people making too much lag.

[NyneAlexander]

I can't believe we're 10 posts in and no one has blamed PS3 for restrictions on open world dungeons. This is progress!

[YuriRamona]

The problem with open-world dungeons is that balancing desirability and incentive with the detriments of abuse and griefing is very difficult. Even now with instanced dungeons we have our hands full with cheaters, griefers, or just overall mean people.

If you look at FATEs (which are most likely to be the dev teams version of "open-world dungeons"), it's all incentive with little opportunity for abuse. Even then, there are still opportunities for players to harm others' experiences (i.e. ending the FATE early and idling at the Aetheryte...)

If you make the open-world dungeon too lucrative, then you have to somehow limit player's abilities to obtain rewards. If you limit player's abilities to obtain rewards, then you create competition. In a competitive atmosphere, players are encouraged to harm others, or at least to not help others.

[Renik]

The problem with open-world dungeons is that balancing desirability and incentive with the detriments of abuse and griefing is very difficult. Even now with instanced dungeons we have our hands full with cheaters, griefers, or just overall mean people.

If you look at FATEs (which are most likely to be the dev teams version of "open-world dungeons"), it's all incentive with little opportunity for abuse. Even then, there are still opportunities for players to harm others' experiences (i.e. ending the FATE early and idling at the Aetheryte...)

If you make the open-world dungeon too lucrative, then you have to somehow limit player's abilities to obtain rewards. If you limit player's abilities to obtain rewards, then you create competition. In a competitive atmosphere, players are encouraged to harm others, or at least to not help others.

You said it, it's very difficult, that's why SE has professionals working on this game, they have to find a solution, also, the DF is even worse than open world content regarding harassment or lack of help.

The only reason they had to make verything instanced (as well as lineal gear progression and lack of customization) is becasue it's very easy to balance and they were too short on time, dev testing and blancing can take over a year for a game with full open world content and gear and class customization.

Now the have released the game, they have the money, it's time to fix the game.

[Caselia]

It's not happening. People were already pissed when Yoshida announced to remove it and because of maps being much smaller when redesigned they were removed, so don't plan on seeing them again.

Oh yes, his reasons were to take the open world dungeons and make them into an instanced dungeon to be more unique and colorful instead of the copy/paste we had in 1.0.

And strongholds are not dungeons.

[Ryuujin]

An open world dungeon can be exploited.

[Dhex]

How to implement this type of content:

Minfilia calls you to the Waking Sands and asks you to collect an item from Titan/Garuda/Ifrit. Once these key items are gathered you are granted access to a new end game region.
Or via a new storyline.

This is a small simple example; it would need to be much larger in scale and depth if SE were to implement something similar.

New endgame region has 3 zones - one open zone roughly the size of Eastern Thanalan, one open zone the size of Old Gridania, one instanced battlefield.

Zone #1 (Large) Open Area - Obtain a Aetherial Indicator for your 24-man group from Y'da for 240,000g to gain access to up to 12 Aetherial NMs (locked by group similar to Leve/Duty mobs; this content will require 24 people)

NOTE: This area does have dangerous normal monsters, and weaker NMS that can be popped using Grand Company "hunt leves", watch out for traps, and treasure chests for those groups that cannot organize 24 people. (4-8 man content)

3 paths 4 NMs each - 1 path drops tank gear, 1 path drops healer gear, 1 path drops dps gear (ilv60~70)

Defeating a path grants 1 key item. 3 key items are required to enter Zone #2.

Zone #2 (Medium) Open Area
3 HNM bosses - each boss consumes a key item.

One boss drops weapons, one boss drops gear, one boss drops accessories (ilv70~80).

Defeating all 3 bosses grants a key item "Seal" used to enter Zone #3

Zone #3 (Small) Instanced Battle Field

Final Boss - drops materials that craft into a special gear pieces (crafted item ~il100)




There is a 2 day cooldown between Aetherial Indicator purchases, the price is high to make it so that people need to split the cost across all 24 people and be invested. You can take as long as you like on the 12 NMs, 3 bosses, Final boss - but the 2 day cooldown prevents you groups from rushing.

The first two zones are large and open (Aetherial hotspot where NMs pop will move around to give people space see Voidwalker NMs in FFXI) so people and enter at leisure and complete the content at their leisure - the NMs/HNMs/Hunt NMs are locked/protected the same as a Duty/Leve to prevent stealing/griefing. This is quite simply content that is mirroring FFXI's Sky/Sea/Abyssea with XIV flavor.

Obviously - No Duty Finder.


Maybe in an expansion. Ala Mhigo?

Edit: I know Crystal Tower is coming but - it's really not the same thing from the way devs have talked about it.... who knows! Right now there is very little incentive to invest in your FC and the group you play with from a game mechanic standpoint - and the community shows this deficiency in the overall conduct of some players in Duty Finder and elsewhere.

I hope they can take a leaf out of their own book when expanding later content!