DPS Parser - ToS Violation?

[Mang]

Gut feeling doesn't equal empirical data.

Parsers are a useful tool for self improvement and performance analysis.

If someone's an elitist douchenozzle it's not the parser's fault. Absent access to a parser, they'd still find a way to be arrogant.

[LadyVaJedi]

I agree with Ervin. The game is suppose to be playing for fun. And it is still a form of cheating using the parasa.

[choke]

This is just like the speeruns, people always want to ban whatever methods they don't happen to like. In this case, it usually happens because *"too low DPS" kick* is totally a parser's fault.

It is true that DPS parsers are used by people who use it to harass DDs for doing too low DPS, but they are also used by people who just want to see how much damage people are doing for improvement purposes.

From what I have seen, it is usually BLMs who end up being harassed for too low DPS. These people are either trolls or they forget the fact that BLMs can't move when casting, this is compensated by a higher damage output, but when you add bad enough luck and get constantly targeted with AoEs, you are almost inevitably doing much less DPS than normally. >_>

Exactly, these people are going to exist with out without the existence of parsers. I'm sure we've all already played with dickheads yelling at other players over really nothing.

Gut feeling doesn't equal empirical data.

Parsers are a useful tool for self improvement and performance analysis.

If someone's an elitist douchenozzle it's not the parser's fault. Absent access to a parser, they'd still find a way to be arrogant.

Precisely this.

Playing to not fall behind is one thing, and it's not even remotely hard to keep up in this game really. 300 tomes per week, obtained through a very easy manner. The game is timegated, sure you can raid for green drops aswell, but the only competition is from NPCs. I dont worry about falling behind or maximizing my preformance until I set foot in PvP, where a parser wont do jack for you since PvP is dynamic. If you can beat PvE content somewhat smoothly it's good enough for me, shaving off 5 minutes on a raid is hardly something I'd bother with. Because more than likely, the time I would spend to tweak my spec would most likely consume more time than all those extra 5 minutes added together per run.

Limitations are also a big hindrance for min-maxing in this game, there are very few options, both with gear, skills and attributes. You get BiS fairly easy, you learn a good rotation, you learn the boss fights, you stay out of bad stuff on the floor and you profit. It's a trinity game, it doesnt get harder than that.

I can see the parser being useful and legit for personal use, but when you start bringing it to pugs where people are trying to just have fun it should be bannable. If you use a parser, stick to other parser using people, easy as that really. But dont think everyone shares the enthusiasm to have the game as a second job. Also, with the difference in class mechanics/dps design, a parser wont give you a fair answer. Some classes are screwed on moving fights while they shine on static fights, just like other classes have more mobility but deal less damage to compensate.

1. So if I'm understanding this correctly, you don't overly like parsers because there is no benefit for You

2a. Why should it be bannable for use with pugs? Its been said over and over and over that these people exist with or without parsers, if they're not able to yell about dps, they'll yell about something else. It's a social issue and has nothing to do with parsers existence.

2b. We all know that differences in classes means differences in dps. That said, its a good measuring tool against other players of the same job/class/whatever. Besides, as I (and others) keep saying, these parsers are not only for dps, when used properly, they can help determine who is taking more or less damage from certain abilities and then watching what they do for certain phases in the fight. This is a parsers best feature.

I agree with Ervin. The game is suppose to be playing for fun. And it is still a form of cheating using the parasa.

And exactly who gets to decide what's "fun". Fun for me in any mmo is min-maxing my dps. Finding the best practises to avoid certain mechanics in boss fights to do the highest dps possible, that's how I (and many others) enjoy playing mmo's. You don't get to decide what's "fun" for me.

And again, no, it's not a form of cheating. It would be cheating if these tools broke the game to play for you or something like that. They don't.

[Facespasm]

Ah, the joy of reading ignorant peoples replies in ignorant threads.

Yes, a parser IS a datamining tool in the sense that it gathers information through a text based file and so on. It retrieves information i.e mining.

The parser IS a 3rd party software that DOES go against the EULA/TOS.

The USE of such a software is at YOUR own risk.

That been said, people can be asshats even without addons.

[Mang]

Ah, the joy of reading ignorant peoples replies in ignorant threads.

Yes, a parser IS a datamining tool in the sense that it gathers information through a text based file and so on. It retrieves information i.e mining.

The parser IS a 3rd party software that DOES go against the EULA/TOS.

The USE of such a software is at YOUR own risk.

That been said, people can be asshats even without addons.

If it's parsing a log, it's not against ToS because the log is auto generating outside the executable program.

[darkvision]

If it's parsing a log, it's not against ToS because the log is auto generating outside the executable program.

actually majority parsers will mine the data from the game memory as the txt log files are not that reliable for parsers as they are slow at updating. thus violating the ToS.

Parsers are not even accurate to DPS output at all since it cannot see DoT damage etc so overall the people using parsers and calling people out for not being the best DD in the group are in the wrong. Also parses cannot parse skill at all so overall they are the fault for the unnecessary asses using them and abusing others for no reason coz some inaccurate parser is saying a person is not as good as another DD in the group

[choke]

actually majority parsers will mine the data from the game memory as the txt log files are not that reliable for parsers as they are slow at updating. thus violating the ToS.

Parsers are not even accurate to DPS output at all since it cannot see DoT damage etc so overall the people using parsers and calling people out for not being the best DD in the group are in the wrong. Also parses cannot parse skill at all so overall they are the fault for the unnecessary asses using them and abusing others for no reason coz some inaccurate parser is saying a person is not as good as another DD in the group

How many times does this need to be said?? Yes, some "asses" will use a tool like this to "call out" bad players, however such players will be "asses" with or without a dps meter.

You are correct that dots are not currently handled properly because of the ffxiv client not tracking dots properly, however when you're comparing your own dps on different occasions on the same fight the dots issue becomes insignificant when determining if your dps improved.

You did mention that meters cannot parse skill, while you're somewhat correct, you're also quite wrong. No, you can't get a perfect indicator of skill through combat logs but a skilled (dps) player in an mmo can be generally defined by who can outdps the other players while taking the least amount of damage. Parsers determine both damage dealt and damage taken quite well. So while not a perfect picture of how "skilled" a player is, it's a pretty good indicator.

[darkvision]

You did mention that meters cannot parse skill, while you're somewhat correct, you're also quite wrong. No, you can't get a perfect indicator of skill through combat logs but a skilled (dps) player in an mmo can be generally defined by who can outdps the other players while taking the least amount of damage. Parsers determine both damage dealt and damage taken quite well. So while not a perfect picture of how "skilled" a player is, it's a pretty good indicator.

but can a parser tell you if:-

• people are standing in the right positions?
• causing wipes?
• dying for no reason?
• dealing with adds alone while rest of the other DD care too much about their DPS on the boss (not doing thier job properly)?
• facing mobs the right way (again a positioning thing)?
• using skills properly?
• communicating with the group about relevant information?
• plays intelligently?
• reacts to the situation?
• person spams the limit break?
• suffered from a lag spike?
• running into AoE fields?
• a person has more knowledge/experience than others?

the answer is NO

there is way too much a parser cannot tell you relating to skill. Skill is not just determined by how much you can DD and how less damage you can take. if that was the case then PLDs and WARs make the worst skill ever. all a parser can tell you is a person knows how to mash the buttons in the correct order etc

[LamiaTrucido]

What are you guys gonna do when SE releases the community tools that let us build plugins?

Oh no, a parser, whatever shall we do?!?!?