armory system useless? Mythology Cap

[Pooky]

Raising the cap isn't a solution to the OP's complain as it will not change the fact that you will still have to prioritise a "main" job; it would only add more grind for everyone actually, instead of just the people who want to gear several jobs. It's by no means a solution. The only solution would be a cap per job:

—> those who only want to gear one job would still have only 300 pts to make per week

—> those who want to gear several job could earn their 300 pts for their main, then another 300 pts for another job, and so on.

The issue I have with caps being job restricted rather than character restricted is that currently to get my 300 myth, I can do WP/AK/CM/Praet/Primals etc as Bard or White Mage. Eventually I plan to have a Paladin at 50 be able to do AK/WP as well. As needed for better group make up and to switch things around. But I'm collecting my myth just for my Bard. I go to coil only as Bard. Bard is my main. Restricting it to jobs will force me to do my 10 WP runs a week only on bard. I will have to find specific groups and I will have to play just my bard. I don't really care to get myth for WHM or PLD right now, but I want to play them in WP/AK. But if I do that with job capped myth, then I'm not helping my Bard. Which is the appealing thing about the armoury system to me.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

The issue I have with caps being job restricted rather than character restricted is that currently to get my 300 myth, I can do WP/AK/CM/Praet/Primals etc as Bard or White Mage. Eventually I plan to have a Paladin at 50 be able to do AK/WP as well. As needed for better group make up and to switch things around. But I'm collecting my myth just for my Bard. I go to coil only as Bard. Bard is my main. Restricting it to jobs will force me to do my 10 WP runs a week only on bard. I will have to find specific groups and I will have to play just my bard. I don't really care to get myth for WHM or PLD right now, but I want to play them in WP/AK. But if I do that with job capped myth, then I'm not helping my Bard. Which is the appealing thing about the armoury system to me.

I hear you. But I think there's way we could have a per-job cap and at the same time allow you to freely earn these tomes in a number of scenarios.

In another MMORPG there is a reputation system (you get reputation points by doing "stuff"). There are several reputations. When you do a dungeon, any dungeon, you get reputation points, and you're allowed to choose which of these reputations you want your points to go towards.

So consider this: in our case, you would be able to select "BRD" so that, no matter which class you play, no matter which dungeon you run, all the tomes earned would count towards your BRD cap (tomes that you could only use to buy BRD gear, obviously; they could be called "Mythology Tomes of the Bard"). When that cap reaches 300 (maxed), you'd then be able to get tomes for another job (again, 300 max for a given job, never more per week, for instance up to 300 "Mythology Tomes of the Paladin"), until the weekly reset happens and you can get back to earning tomes for your BRD.

Wouldn't that be nice?

[itscoreylol]

herp derp

So instead of a badge grind you want rep grinds?

I'm really glad people like you aren't working at SE.

Myth tome cap is fine where it is right now. It shouldn't be per job, and tomes shouldn't be mutually exclusive to the job they're earned on.

[Pooky]

I hear you. But I think there's way we could have a per-job cap and at the same time allow you to freely earn these tomes in a number of scenarios.

In another MMORPG there is a reputation system (you get reputation points by doing "stuff"). There are several reputations. When you do a dungeon, any dungeon, you get reputation points, and you're allowed to choose which of these reputations you want your points to go towards.

So consider this: in our case, you would be able to select "BRD" so that, no matter which class you play, no matter which dungeon you run, all the tomes earned would count towards your BRD cap (tomes that you could only use to buy BRD gear, obviously; they could be called "Mythology Tomes of the Bard"). When that cap reaches 300 (maxed), you'd then be able to get tomes for another job (again, 300 max for a given job, never more per week, for instance up to 300 "Mythology Tomes of the Paladin"), until the weekly reset happens and you can get back to earning tomes for your BRD.

Wouldn't that be nice?

I wouldn't mind that.

[NotoriousZow]

The myth cap does not make the armory system useless at all, it just slows the acquisition of gear. It creates a sense of progress and adds balance to the whole progression scale (even if it is some false sense of progress imposed by a restriction). I much prefer this restriction than a restriction of having to play a specific job just to earn tomes for that job. no. no. no. no. I really hope SE does NOT put this in place. It may work in a game where you can only play one job/class per character, but in a game with an armory system it strips away freedom and makes party play more restrictive and limited. No thanks.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

The myth cap does not make the armory system useless at all, it just slows the acquisition of gear. It creates a sense of progress and adds balance to the whole progression scale (even if it is some false sense of progress imposed by a restriction). I much prefer this restriction than a restriction of having to play a specific job just to earn tomes for that job. no. no. no. no. I really hope SE does NOT put this in place. It may work in a game where you can only play one job/class per character, but in a game with an armory system it strips away freedom and makes party play more restrictive and limited. No thanks.

It's not the cap itself that makes the armory system useless; it's that the cap applies to your whole character and not to each of your character's jobs.

As for your previous commentary, here's what I said just above it:

Finally, to address the notion that "if the cap was per job, I would be forced to play a specific job in order to gear said job". Well… ^^; … you're entitled to your own tastes, but doesn't that seem more logical to you? That you need to use a specific "asset" (here, a specific job) in order to be more powerful/efficient with the asset in question? How is it logical that your tanking gets better when all you do is use a healer?

Think of it this way: I don't get better at maths when I read history books, I get better at maths when I actually learn and do maths.

Of course it's nice, it's comfortable to be able to gear all jobs only playing one, but it's certainly less logical than having to use a given "thing" to get better at that very "thing". It would be great to get better at maths when reading history books as well, but it just doesn't work that way. And let's not even talk about "player skill" when you gear up a tank by playing another role entirely. It's just how MMO's work: I play a tank, my tanking character gets "better" (geared), and I as a player get "better" (skilled) at tanking. I play a healer, my… oh you get it.

Again, it makes way much more sense to have to actually use and play a job to gear it, than to be able to gear all of them only playing a single one. That would be more logical, and it would give much more sense to the armory system overall.

Finally:

If you do not understand the complaints about the armory system and tome caps, please refer to this thread here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ory-job-system.

Also, let's please keep the discussion for this issue all in a single thread(preferably the one linked) so it's easier for SE to see all our complaints about this issue in a single thread. It's how the japanese do it, more organized and easier to read.

What Shiyo said, 100% agree. On a side-related note, it would be great if moderators here would actually merge similar topics, that's just good practice on a forum.
(Sometimes people don't take the time to research prior to posting, or can't find specific threads, therefore that's why moderation is required: not only to discipline but also to curate and organise a forum.)

[C-croft]

What Shiyo said, 100% agree. On a side-related note, it would be great if moderators here would actually merge similar topics, that's just good practice on a forum.
(Sometimes people don't take the time to research prior to posting, or can't find specific threads, therefore that's why moderation is required: not only to discipline but also to curate and organise a forum.)

Speaking to this. The devs already stated they will not be changing anything in regards to the amount of myth tomes you can pick up... Shiyo's post that s/he is self promoting has become moot.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1463519

EDIT: Maybe not completely moot, but the myth cap per job is a no. The only thing you have going for you is the reduction in tomes per item later down the road.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Speaking to this. The devs already stated they will not be changing anything in regards to the amount of myth tomes you can pick up... Shiyo's post that s/he is self promoting has become moot.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1463519

EDIT: Maybe not completely moot, but the myth cap per job is a no. The only thing you have going for you is the reduction in tomes per item later down the road.

I know, I read that.

But still, I'm of those fools who thinks making a good case can help finding better solutions, convincing people (read: fellow players but above all devs) that there can be "a better way". Or at least discuss it, consider the limits and flaws of a given choice and try to improve on it —I don't pretend to be right, but I certainly like a logical and reasonable discussion based on actual, humble, sound arguments.

I don't know of any game design that was perfect from the get-go (especially void of feedback, only tested at the office among fellow in-house devs), but I do know of game designers that strived to do better, listened to players feedback, and re-worked some aspects of their game again and again until they found a "sweet spot". SE said they would listen, and they already changed a few things in ARR since launch, so I'd rather believe they can still amend (even revamp) flawed designs that objectively don't fulfil their initial premise.

This isn't a game-breaking issue since there's a workaround known by everyone (roll another character), still it certainly tarnishes the interest of the whole armory system; but granted, there are more pressing issues such as the one we must not speak of.

Anyway, thanks for the pointers.

[Shiyo]

If you do not understand the complaints about the armory system and tome caps, please refer to this thread here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ory-job-system.

Also, let's please keep the discussion for this issue all in a single thread(preferably the one linked) so it's easier for SE to see all our complaints about this issue in a single thread. It's how the japanese do it, more organized and easier to read.

[itscoreylol]

Furthermore, the armory system isn't useless it works just fine. Just because you can't get AF2 on all your jobs at the same time doesn't mean that it's pointless to have the ability to switch at all. All you WoWchildren just want instant gratification. You don't understand that if you had things your way, you would've already poopsocked all your jobs to the same level of AF2 and rather than complaining about this you'd be complaining that the game doesn't have enough to do and that you're bored. You'd probably unsub then and that would hurt Yoshi's feelings and that's just mean. Slowing the acquisition of gear is necessary at this point in the games life. You all need to just chill the fuck out, you'll get your jobs geared.