Questioning the design of TP

[RyuDragnier]

And I would dislike that too if Sprint drained all MP (if I were playing a DoM).

Whatever the original whole design was, if the system's only net result is that TP is only a constraint when you're a DoW that wants to use Sprint, well, I think it could use some revision.

Maybe Sprint using the opposite of your Discipline? For example, if DoW, it uses MP, and if DoM it uses TP?

[Amas]

Maybe Sprint using the opposite of your Discipline? For example, if DoW, it uses MP, and if DoM it uses TP?

Bad idea due to MP recovery rate.

More importantly, the classes that are the least mobile have the least trade-off for sprinting. The classes that are more mobile need it less.

[RyuDragnier]

Bad idea due to MP recovery rate.

More importantly, the classes that are the least mobile have the least trade-off for sprinting. The classes that are more mobile need it less.

This is very true. Was a crazy idea to begin with though.

[Pfang]

I do not see an unfairness between sprint and the DoM and DoW classes. My concern is that there is no way for the DoW classes to increase the amount of TP they have. Everyone get 1000 points regardless.
If it were tied to one of the stats the way Piety is tied to MP, there would be better alignment between the two disciplines.

[Shaiandra]

The fact that Sprint penalizes just DoWs is weird. It should either penalize all classes (costing a chunk of your primary resource) or none.

Personally I'd lean towards it being free, but possibly nerfed, such as giving it a 10 sec duration in combat but up to 20 sec if used outside of combat (and you don't enter combat during its duration). Or increase its cooldown in combat or something.

If it instead did drain primary resources from all classes, even if you took away most of a THM's MP, he/she can get it back. And a CNJ or SCH would never be allowed to sprint in combat if it drained their MP, that'd be suicide.

I guess another option would be to lessen the TP cost. Maybe do something like spend 100-200 TP for a speed boost for X seconds, and if used again during this duration, drains all remaining TP to increase its duration.

But Sprint aside... I'm still not keen with how some DPS classes use a long term resource (TP) while others (THM) use a short term one..

[Kevee]

Fair; but if that's the case, doesn't that make TP classes even worse?

If I'm not mistaken THM doesn't have a long-term resource. Their MP bar goes down and up and down and up, so it's more of a short-term resource that determines when you can/should use spell X and when you can't. So aside from cooldown phases, a THM can maintain sustained DPS for 10 minutes just as well as it can for 5 minutes.

Whereas PGL and LNC have a long-term resource which will eventually deplete, even if you use your only one TP restorer and never Sprint or AoE? Does that seem balanced?..

THM/BLM is the only class/job that's special, and really, has an infinite resource of gain and decay.

All other DoM classes are subject to long-term mana management.

THM's damage overall does take MP and efficiency into account. Your damage tanks considerably when you're outside of Astral Fire so the more times you have to swap over to Umbral Ice the less overall damage you are doing. It adds up in longer fights.

Anyways, there is no question that the team is doing their best to ensure that fights are balanced so everyone can participate. They will likely not have any sort of AOE heavy battles if it would leave melee totally useless. This was a major problem in 1.0 that they have, I feel, mostly fixed.

Either way, if higher tier fights continue to require a lot of movement, BLMs will have a much harder time than melee do as they have to move around a lot and will keep getting interrupted.

It's an infinite continuing cycle, though.

No other class/job can do that. Once they run low/empty on their resource, they have to STOP or greatly SLOW DOWN what they're doing.

Also, turn 4 is fairly AoE heavy but has been cleared with 3 melees/1 BRD. Paeon does wonders.

[Estellios]

THM's damage overall does take MP and efficiency into account. Your damage tanks considerably when you're outside of Astral Fire so the more times you have to swap over to Umbral Ice the less overall damage you are doing. It adds up in longer fights.

Anyways, there is no question that the team is doing their best to ensure that fights are balanced so everyone can participate. They will likely not have any sort of AOE heavy battles if it would leave melee totally useless. This was a major problem in 1.0 that they have, I feel, mostly fixed.

Either way, if higher tier fights continue to require a lot of movement, BLMs will have a much harder time than melee do as they have to move around a lot and will keep getting interrupted.

[Shaiandra]

Depending where melee have to move to, they might lose at least as much DPS during movement..

So if I'm reading correctly..
- THM is the only class without a long term resource.
- While an ACN may eventually run OOM, managing MP is an active part of how to play the class.
- LNC can use Invigorate for TP, and their DPS is sustainable in practice (due to downtime).
- PGL has no innate ways to restore TP. Are they also sustainable in practice with Invigorate? What about without it?
- MRD and GLA have no ways to restore TP. Do they have TP problems? Can they only generate threat in bursts and then are stuck using no TP skills for a while? Are they much awesomer with a BRD feeding them TP?

If a lot of DPS classes use long-term resources, maybe TP isn't so bad (though I'd still like to see Sprint's cost changed). But then I would hope/expect that classes should have similar longevity without requiring other class abilities or others sustaining you.

[juniglee]

MRD and GLA have no ways to restore TP. Do they have TP problems? Can they only generate threat in bursts and then are stuck using no TP skills for a while? Are they much awesomer with a BRD feeding them TP?

Everytime I run AK, as a Paladin, I always run out of TP when fighting the first boss. This seems to be more of a Paladin issue, but in general our enmity combo costs too much TP overall (70 + 60 + 60 = 190 TP). This is off set by TP regen however, but the regen rate isn't that great, and I will eventually run out of CP spamming the enmity combo over and over again.

To mitigate this, we're given Shield Swipe, a 40 TP situational attack with 210 potency, which we should be using in long fights where we have already built up aggro. But back to the case of the AK first boss, since he uses primarily magic attacks, there is a near zero chance that I am able to proc the block to be able to use Shield Swipe. So eventually I am stuck to using the enmity combo.

Finally, the TP cost of Shield Bash. It's a great stun skill that's on the GCD, and can be used every time it's up (every 2.5s). However, it's major drawback is that it costs 150 TP to use. Compared to the enmity combo, it's 3 moves which costs 190 TP, but is offset by TP regen during battle, but spending 150 TP in one shot is kinda impossible to regen, especially when you have to use it once every 10 seconds or so to stun Void Thunder III (the only thing I bother stunning).

Outside of those skills, the only off-GCD skills we have that we can use are Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within. Technically we can use Flash too, as it consumes MP instead of TP, but it's part of the GCD, and it's not really advisable to spam it. I usually end up spamming it when I run out of TP while I wait for about 200 TP or so to recover so I have enough for an emergency Shield Bash as needed. I imagine it would be worse for Warriors, since Overpower costs TP and not MP.

And of course, the worst case scenario when you accidentally press Sprint while in battle. Have fun waiting for TP regen.

At times I do wish Paladin was able to add Invigorate to their skill list, but it's just wishful thinking. A 400 TP recovery boost would be nice for any DoW class. I personally would feel so much more comfortable when I have a Bard in my AK party for the TP regen song.

[Gusdel]

I belive the thought process of a tp dump is so Dow can't do full dps when in sprint. I'm not saying that is it or correct or even fair. Just the reason I think why.