AOE tanking and Taunt question (Warrior)

[Ehayte]

Unless you've been ignoring that add for the last 10 seconds, Provoke is going to be less useful than simply dropping a BB/Halone on the target.

For 8 man raids with trivial clearing, yes.

But in dungeons, even 5 seconds is LONG time in this game. It is enough time to build easily more hate than a RoH/BB will get you (even if you have it combo queued up) and that same amount of time could easily put a devastating amount of hurt into any DPS/Healing class. I use a provoke/cover hot-key all the time in dungeons, including CM. I will even sometimes intentionally let my enmity lapse on a target that is getting AE'ed while I build a huge cushion on my main target, then as soon as it breaks off from me, Provoke + Shield Lob + RoH, and now I have everything neatly under control once again, without having to have run around like a chicken with my head cut off.

Provoke is very useful.

[Kitru]

But in dungeons, even 5 seconds is LONG time in this game.

I've run against relic+1 DPS while using an Ifrit weapon and never had to use Provoke on adds or trash while doing any dungeon. There are only 3 real reasons you might have issues: (1) DPS attacking a non-focus target, (2) DPS attacking ST when you're AoEing or vice versa, or (3) the tank hasn't learned to target swap to maintain smaller aggro on non-focus targets while maintaining a large amount of enmity on the focus target. If you know how to tank, you don't need Provoke for enmity generation outside of tank swaps and death recovery. Knowing how to spam Halone is not the same as knowing how to tank; you may have found a weird strategy that lets you get away with not knowing how to tank optimally, but that's not the same as actually having Provoke be useful in a situation where you actually *do* know what you're doing.

I've been running without Provoke on my WAR for over 3 weeks (ever since I got Internal Release) and have never lamented not having it. I don't even use it when I'm playing PLD because I simply never need to. If you need to and there isn't an explicit fight mechanic that demands it, you're doing something wrong.

[Ehayte]

Snip

You are my favorite person on this forum, because despite the fact that you are very intelligent and thoughtful, you're favorite thing in the world seems to be to take reasonable arguments that are specifically directed to casual players or 4-man dungeons, and apply your elitist "I'm the best and if nothing goes wrong for me because I do everything perfectly all the time" then there is no need to discuss any other possibility.

Getting as nerdy as I can here, "Only a Sith deals in extremes."

[Ehayte]

I've run against relic+1 DPS while using an Ifrit weapon......you may have found a weird strategy that lets you get away with not knowing how to tank optimally, but that's not the same as actually having Provoke be useful in a situation where you actually *do* know what you're doing.

Also, to address your point - if you only know one strategy to tank, then when something unexpected happens, you will be less equipped than someone who employs a variety of situational strategies. I mainly use traditional tanking strategies, but there are plently of situations where you can use forward thinking and dexterity to alleviate stress, worry, and healer mana.

[Kitru]

Also, to address your point - if you only know one strategy to tank, then when something unexpected happens, you will be less equipped than someone who employs a variety of situational strategies. I mainly use traditional tanking strategies, but there are plently of situations where you can use forward thinking and dexterity to alleviate stress, worry, and healer mana.

And you're talking about highly situations strategies as if they were somehow useful to bring up all the time. Your wonky little Provoke strategy is both harder to execute, much less useful, and much less effective than just learning to target swap to maintain multi-target enmity.

Casuals don't need to be told to use some wonky Provoke combo that requires effectively split second timing. They need to be told the relatively simple process to maintain threat on multiple targets since it does the job *better* and is easier to do. You're overcomplicating what should be incredibly simple.

[Ehayte]

You're overcomplicating what should be incredibly simple.

Agreed - I did kind of get carried away with a unique situational strategy involving Provoke. What I was trying to get across was that Provoke is useful situationally, and that I personally disagree with your statement that it should not be used aside from those couple specific times. I think employing the "wonky" strategies in combination with the traditional tanking methods (which this thread was not addressing, it was specifically talking about Provoke usage), is a great way to be a tank. I think its just a difference of opinion that we got carried away with - I sincerely apologize for being extra combative in this particular instance.

[Bayman]

Provoke + Shield Lob + RoH

So, this is a Warrior asking the question... we don't have Provoke + Shield Lob + RoH, but thanks uh... for the input?

For CM AoE tanking, I usually hit em with a couple overpowers. If you can unchained, zerk, and overpower spam 3-4 times on the trash and let your group aoe everything down. Then work your tab combo chain. You should not loose threat on any of them. Also it will be fun to watch the pally sitting there twiddling there thumbs until you get to the main bosses.

I normally only use flash when pacified from zerk or TP starved.

[Ehayte]

So, this is a Warrior asking the question... we don't have Provoke + Shield Lob + RoH, but thanks uh... for the input?

Uhh...You have Provoke + Tomahawk + BB which is almost effectively identical but thanks uh....for...nothing?

[Terabyt3]

Uhh...You have Provoke + Tomahawk + BB which is almost effectively identical but thanks uh....for...nothing?

Provoke is a terrible opener for any tank. Since it puts you at the top of the enmity list +1 it means that initial shot is only granting you 1 enmity. Save it for the occasions it's meant for: Tank swapping, getting hate after a death, pulling succubus from miiiiiiiiiiiles away or grabbing hate after an unexpected loss!

For War I find the easiest is: Tomohawk>Overpower if in a group (making sure i hit them all or do 2 if i don't)>BB Combo>Overpower if in group>Maim combo>fracture>Overpower if group> BB combo
People say you really need flash as a war but overpower is much more effective. For the sake of taking 2 steps to a different position you generat much more hate than a war using flash. Yes it breaks cc but if you are unable to avoid hitting cc mobs with a frontal cone attack tanking is not for you!

For PLD here's what I use: Shield Lob>Flash>Spirits within (seriously it;s the best time to use it! You're at 100%hp so 300 potency with oth multiplier and so many still dont do it)>Flash>CoS>RoHx2>Flash

Since Spirits within and CoS are off the GCD thats a really quick rapid fire of skills grabbing everything around you in about 15~.

But it's all situational.

[Bayman]

Uhh...You have Provoke + Tomahawk + BB which is almost effectively identical but thanks uh....for...nothing?

Listen, I tried to be nice. BUT STFU. You are giving out HORRID information because you can tank as ANOTHER class.

If you had to use provoke, tomahawk + BB means you are gonna loose threat right away again. If yer in a scramble and need to hit prov, Prov to Zerk (if possible) to OP(upto x3 depending on sit), then BB x 3 Storm X 1 combos will win every day over your crap idea. BUT of course, you know this with all your experience as a WAR tanking, and talking to a WAR about WAR threat.

GTFO, yer either too arrogant/stupid to know when to shut yer yap, or yer a troll.