Bards and BL and Crit and RoB

[Borvos]

Ok...So now that we have this information.. I would like us to know how much is this actually worth it.. Because I'm sure we all know that, in order to get Critical Rate, other statistics must be sacrificed. If determination and dexterity are sacrificed then we may be using more bloodletters but every single ability will deal a little less damage.

What we need to find is that harmonious balance of sacrificing other stats for critical, but making sure that the end result is higher damage, because afterall that is what we want; to make the job for the tank harder

Edit: I suppose the higher crit on other abilities other than dots would offset this sacrifice and most likely will produce higher damage; just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.

[Vea]

what i want to know ( I am sorry if it is a stupid question), is does IR stay with DOT's or come off when IR goes down?

[Tua]

what i want to know ( I am sorry if it is a stupid question), is does IR stay with DOT's or come off when IR goes down?

When you use a DOT ability, it takes a snapshot of your current buffs and adds them to the entire duration of the DOT. So if you use VB or WB with 4 seconds left on Internal Release and 7 on Raging Strikes, the DOT will stay buffed with IR and RS for the entire 18 (?) seconds even though the buffs drop off soon after you've used the attack.

Well, that seems to be the theory anyway.

[Thotor]

I am sorry I don't quite understand why BLs are superiors in numbers compared to procs. Is that the number of times there would have been no procs and that BLs would have reset naturally ?

I don't want to start a debate on BL usage but since you seem quite a knowledgeable on the matter : Did you know BL animation can be cancelled and has an effective 0 second cast (I noticed it just recently) which means you can fire any other skill afterwards without delay and on the other hand, casting anything but BL will cause an animation delay on BL. What's your view on this ?

[pandabearcat]

I am sorry I don't quite understand why BLs are superiors in numbers compared to procs. Is that the number of times there would have been no procs and that BLs would have reset naturally ?

I don't want to start a debate on BL usage but since you seem quite a knowledgeable on the matter : Did you know BL animation can be cancelled and has an effective 0 second cast (I noticed it just recently) which means you can fire any other skill afterwards without delay and on the other hand, casting anything but BL will cause an animation delay on BL. What's your view on this ?

Yes, the difference in numbers is the amount of full duration cooldowns (12 seconds w/ no procs) you incur.

Since you will NEVER miss a BL by waiting until offGCD to use BL, it is a moot point as you should never delay a GCD skill to use BL.

[EasymodeX]

Ok...So now that we have this information.. I would like us to know how much is this actually worth it.. Because I'm sure we all know that, in order to get Critical Rate, other statistics must be sacrificed. If determination and dexterity are sacrificed then we may be using more bloodletters but every single ability will deal a little less damage.

Crit is overweighted by random Bards who try to stack it to the exclusion of all else. It's actually quite comical.


The current stat weights I've estimated for a Bard rotation (autocrit SS + WB/VB + 5x HS [note: 5x HS -> 1x 100% autocrit SS is another point where a simulation would have differing results], including fire AOE once per minute, BL procs, autoattacks, IR and Barrage, etc etc; does not include Hawk's Eye which is a minor skew against Dex) are roughly:

WD 7.849
DEX 1.000
DET 0.235
CRT 0.233
SS 0.136

However, my model estimates about 8% fewer BL procs than the simulation results panda posted. After hard-coding an 8% increase in BL procs:

WD 7.849
DEX 1.000
DET 0.234
CRT 0.232
SS 0.136

Almost identical. Interesting that the CRT (and DET) values went down at all. Probably because the base character crit (341) + SS + IR are so high. The 8% adjustment magnifies those as well, slightly marginalizing crit from gear.

The only other factor is the large quantity of "hard wait" BLs in the simulation. Adding that (0.0366 hardwait BLs per second) results in:

WD 7.849
DEX 1.000
DET 0.232
CRT 0.224
SS 0.131

Unsurprisingly, adding in BLs that don't appear from crit procs reduces the relative value of crit.

Note that at higher crit levels, the number of hard wait BLs will be reduced, so the actual value of crit is very slightly lower than the number above. I'd WAG 0.223. Note: I consider the 15% crit baseline (483 crit rating) sliiightly high, so I would suggest a 0.225 weight or so. Regardless, the differences are small.

[pandabearcat]

It certainly wouldn't be above dex, but I'm surprised its not above det.

Determination is a flat increase in damage independent of weapon damage and dex, but I suppose since bard's base weapon damage is so low that it is weighted higher.

For casters at least weapon damage and int are so high and lack of autoattack that crit's multiplier of the whole thing outshines det even without a crit proc.

[Viridiana]

Out of curiosity, does your sim accurately reflect the fact that flaming arrow is auto-crit damage?

[EasymodeX]

It certainly wouldn't be above dex, but I'm surprised its not above det.

Det appears to cost more item budget than crit/ss/acc, so it "needs" have a higher weight per point or it'll be pretty bad.

Out of curiosity, does your sim accurately reflect the fact that flaming arrow is auto-crit damage?

Actually no, my model has it as a normal ability that crits when you crit, etc. I read something about shadow flare autocritting; the fire AOE for Bards is the same? May be 'common' among persistent AOEs potentially sourced from dummy objects or something else strange. Doesn't seem like there's a really "good" reason why those would autocrit.

In any case, that would alter the weights to:

WD 7.849
DEX 1.000
DET 0.231
CRT 0.221
SS 0.130

Relatively small-ish dent to crit, although it's obviously dependent on the target standing in the AOE.

[Viridiana]

So, it looks like .22 is a good estimate, at least going off of the stats you're using to run your sim. I don't suppose this is available online anywhere, is it? I'm curious what it would say the weights are with my stats, bearing in mind that I'm just under the crit rating you're using.