Re-examining Ancient Magic Spells

[Amineri]

The other day (while bored) I was looking again at the rank 44 'ancient magic' spell line. The more I look at these spells, the more fishy things get.

Not only is the MP cost a staggering 100 MP, the cast time six seconds, and an approximately 30 second delay, but the spells are CONJURER ONLY.

I looked through the previous thread, and no one seems to have mentioned this ~ none of the other classes seem to care about trying to equip ancient magic spells, so it hasn't been brought up.

So, I did a bit of experimentation to try and discover if there were something being overlooked.

** AM spells can be cast on other players as well as creatures **
The AM spell is automatically an AoE, and is centered on your target. If you cast it on another player, when the timer goes off all creatures in an AoE around that player will take damage.

However, you must (a) already be engaged before casting (b) be within range of the target player when the effect goes off.

Multiple Conjurers can stack AM onto the same player. Since the AM timer is separate for each Conjurer, each spell will go off separately (they don't 'combine').

I will be posting other results (both positive and negative) as I find them ~~ contributions are always welcome!

[Peregrine]

I've tried and tried to come up with a reasoning behind the AM design and I just can't find any. The casting on a player is as likely to be a mistake as it is some intended feature, since the other mechanics of the spells make that feature irrelevant. You can't plant a bunch of am's on a player and have them run at a mob group suicide bomber style since you have to be in range and the enemy already has to be engaged. There's not even an applicable kiting use.

I think the ability to cast on a player was just a developmental oversight, or part of an idea that never made it into the game.

AM would be worth it as designed if it did as much dot as the spell spiked at the end. That's really the only easy way i can see AM salvageable as we know it.

[Rentahamster]

Ancient magic is a complete joke and a waste of time.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Magic-Spells

[Amineri]

Ancient magic is a complete joke and a waste of time.

Yes, I read that thread, and considered reviving it. However, that thread is mostly filled with simple bashing of the spells, not actual posts of "I tried this and it didn't work", etc. Please, Hamster, if you wish to bash on AM without adding anything, just go post in that thread. I mean this in a respectful way ~~ venting frustrations is a healthy thing, but I would like to keep this thread focussed on proposing and testing ideas.

I've tried and tried to come up with a reasoning behind the AM design and I just can't find any.

Peregrine, would it be possible for you to write up and post some of the specific things you have tried? That would let everyone else not spend time trying the same old things, and might even spark some crazy thought.

[Rentahamster]

Yes, I read that thread, and considered reviving it. However, that thread is mostly filled with simple bashing of the spells, not actual posts of "I tried this and it didn't work", etc. . . .I would like to keep this thread focussed on proposing and testing ideas.

Did you?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ull=1#post9632

Hi All,

Great topic.

Totally agree that Ancient Magic (Flare, Tornado, etc.) needs to be fixed and updated. Like others (adding to this thread so the Developers can see our "votes" for changing this):

1. Currently, Conjurers' Ancient Magic (Flare, Tornado, etc.) is too weak. We do more damage, faster, with basic Spells like Fire, Fire II, etc.

2. Ancient Magic looks horrible (almost non-existent). There are almost no Special Effects on what *should* be the Conjurer's best Magic Spells in the game. Instead, you can't even see any effect happening. It's unfinished.

3. Change the casting mechanic for Ancient Magic: Having to wait 60 seconds for something to go off is pretty sad, and almost unusable except on Notorious Monsters (NM), and even then, they are too weak.


We shouldn't have to second-guess and try to "add / buff up" different things to make Ancient Magic actually work (and it doesn't work with that theory anyways).

Even the way we were given Ancient Magic shows how *little* the old Development Team cared about them:

* They dump ALL Ancient Magic Spells to you at Rank 44. You learn Flare, Freeze, Tornado, Quake, Burst, Flood all at the same time! Huh?!

Ancient Magic should be earned with great fanfare, 1 per Level, with beautiful Special Effects, high Damage, and usability. Not dumped all at once and completely useless as they are now.

Conjurers' spells in general need some tweaks as well, but that's another topic.

Thanks!

They've already "tried it and it didn't work". That's the whole reason people were complaining about Ancient Magic in the first place.

Please, Hamster, if you wish to bash on AM without adding anything, just go post in that thread. I mean this in a respectful way ~~ venting frustrations is a healthy thing...

What is there to add? The problems with Ancient Magic are glaringly obvious and there are no positives associated with it at all. It costs too much MP, it costs too much AP, it takes forever to cast, the animation looks incredibly poor, and it doesn't even do that much damage. It's a total disgrace to the name, "Ancient Magic".

We've been testing it for 8 months now, and it has next to zero real use at all.

[Trigger]

I believe in the intro video they had a mage cast magic (maybe ancient magic) on an archer and he fired it into the malbro. Maybe SE had plans to implement something like that in the future for it?

[Eldaena]

I believe in the intro video they had a mage cast magic (maybe ancient magic) on an archer and he fired it into the malbro. Maybe SE had plans to implement something like that in the future for it?

This is actually a good point. It could be more useless to us now because a mechanic that has yet to be added.

[Shipp]

This is actually a good point. It could be more useless to us now because a mechanic that has yet to be added.

That was the first thing I thought of when reading the thread too. I think it would be an interesting mechanic to bring into the game, especially if it caused a synergy where one element matches with one type of weapon, and if they're used together, the damage is amazing.

[Rentahamster]

That was the first thing I thought of when reading the thread too. I think it would be an interesting mechanic to bring into the game, especially if it caused a synergy where one element matches with one type of weapon, and if they're used together, the damage is amazing.

I agree. It's reminiscent of Chrono Trigger, a game that I really enjoyed.

I offered up a detailed thesis about this very subject in my battle regimen reform and encouraging cooperation thread.

LINK: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...llChains2.0%29

[Rowyne]

I believe in the intro video they had a mage cast magic (maybe ancient magic) on an archer and he fired it into the malbro. Maybe SE had plans to implement something like that in the future for it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag2cRTU-Og8&t=3m7s

Yup, I keep thinking about that every time I watch the opening movie. I think 'collaborative' magic would bring something really unique to this game's party experience. I hope that's where they were going with it.