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  1. #11
    Player
    pandabearcat's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    1,517
    Character
    Alizebeth Bequin
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycia View Post
    Cept you shouldn't spam Ruin 2...
    I am not advocating spam, I am saying use it to maximize damage when you need to use off GCD abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycia View Post
    I do Virus, E4AE, Rouse, Spur, Enkindle (300s cool down, blow it early to have it later.)
    follow that with Bio 2, Bio, Miasma, Fester, Thunder, Bio again (will be nearly done by that time), Ruin, Fester and then back to the original rotation, adding Aetherflow in the mix.
    Why would you pop all your defensive cooldowns on the tank immediately, when the first phase of the fight is usually the easiest and your healers have full mana?

    You have miasma and thunder between your bio...you are only using 7.5 seconds out of its 18 second duration, how is that "nearly done"? Furthermore, why would you bio before miasma? You can fester during its GCD to again, increase DPS without wasting an animation lock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycia View Post
    If using Garuda, she'll refresh your Dots, giving you more Ruin casts....but seriously...DO NOT waste MP on Miasma 2 and Shadow Flare...especially using a Swiftcast. Save that for pet revival / battle rez.
    Miasma II DOES suck, but IS a slight dps increase if you use it with contagion (about 0.17% dps increase...which is still an increase).

    Furthermore, if you're in Miasma II range you are also in melee range, so you can also smack them with your book for another like 0.05% dps increase.

    Ruin II lets you use off GCD abilities (like Fester, Swiftcast, Energy Drain and Bane, Aetherflow) without wasting an animation lock. This is another dps increase. Furthermore, during that, you can autoattack for more damage.

    I was taking you seriously until you said to not use Shadowflare. Even if it did no damage, shadowflare provides a chance to slow the boss, lowering his damage on the tank (much like Eye for an Eye, except constant ticking chance to proc), and making it easier to interrupt abilities. Add in the fact that it DOES do abilities, and that it lasts 30 full seconds, and only costs slightly more than Bio II, and you have an ability you should always use unless the boss is going to move.

    Furthermore Shadowflare is by far our most efficient DoT if used on more than 1 target.

    Miasma II is also a dps increase on more than 1 target, though dot + bane is better, and with 4 or fewer targets tab targetting Thunder is also superior.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Lycia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Lucia Liberta
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Wow, ok... you pop the defensive moves at the START of the fight because the Tank has no threat...how many times have you seen EOS pull threat at the start of a pull? The less damage the tank takes, the more threat they can build and the less heals that needs to be tossed out. You toss Bio second because its your hardest hitting dot, and you want it up asap, plus the 2.5 second buffer actually meshes the cool downs together with Bio 2 and Miasma. You cast it again because it will refresh the DOT to a near exact match with your Miasma 2 / Bio 2, so they're all on the same cool down. After that second fester, you cast 2 more ruin 1 then boom all your cool downs are at 3-4 seconds for a quick reapplication.
    (0)
    *Insert silly joke about healers*

  3. #13
    Player
    Lycia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Lucia Liberta
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    The Shadowflare slow is a 5% proc at a near 200mp cost, that's 6% of your mana pool for a 5% proc, for an AOE on a single boss fight. Plus I also said its stupid to use your Swiftcast on that spell because why blow an instant spell when you don't need too. Do you sit there on Titan or Coil casting a 3 second shadowflare on a boss fight? Do you run in to cast Miasma 2? Better yet, what do you do when you need a swiftcast to revive a pet, or raise a comrade?

    You play your class however you want too, but IMHO your wasting MP on Miasma 2, and Shadowflare. You obviously must run with mage ballad all the time, but you've literally blown 1400 ish MP plus two Aetherflow moves, any chance to have blind be a useful proc (plus your tanks chance of using it) with flash...plus you run into melee range to cast a spell that will probably be sick to use in PvP...in a PvE spell. Plus you're waiting til the end of your rotation to use the longest cool down you have.
    (0)
    *Insert silly joke about healers*

  4. #14
    Player
    Lycia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Lucia Liberta
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Actually I'm going to disagree with myself, just went to Coerthas and tested out shadowflare, quite decent DPS for a single fight. Still wouldn't blow a swiftcast on it, but that's my opinion. Ty for the add to my DPS. I would still not toss the ruin 2's in there though, and consider using the rouse, spur, enkindle move WAY sooner
    (0)
    *Insert silly joke about healers*

  5. #15
    Player
    Infighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Logan Tethros
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by pandabearcat View Post
    Obey | RS -> Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio | Fester -> Thunder -> Miasma II | Contagion | Swiftcast -> Shadowflare |(whatever you want here, meh, possibly energy drain if you want to aetherflow earlier) -> Ruin II | Fester-> Ruin II | Rouse -> Ruin II | Spur -> Ruin II | Enkindle.
    This is my starting rotation too, yep. No Miasma II because I don't think the little dps increase is worth the bother. Maybe if I'm already near boss or something. Rest is perfect, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycia View Post
    I would still not toss the ruin 2's in there though, and consider using the rouse, spur, enkindle move WAY sooner
    You use Ruin II to trigger GCDs and maximize dps considering off-gcd abilities still have a lock animation. For example, you should always use a Ruin II before using Fester.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    pandabearcat's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    1,517
    Character
    Alizebeth Bequin
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Hi Lycia, yes Shadowflare is quite good for a DoT (its 25 potency, but people say it hits much higher than it should).

    Yes, it is a large mp investment, but compare it to Bio II as it lasts the same duration, and it suddenly doesn't seem so bad. In fact, Thunder is a larger mana drain over the same duration, and it might be wise to drop thunder from your multidot rotation if you are running low.

    Yes you are draining MP, but you should be able to be okay unless there are tons of target swapping requiring lots of redotting. I've only run out on one fight so far, and that is a matter of stopping use of Ruin II and Miasma before stopping your hard hitting DoTs. I mention this in my guide about rotations, and what you should drop to conserve mana.

    3 seconds does seem long, but its only 0.5 seconds more than your normal GCD. So, not so bad when you think of it this way.

    @Infighter I agree that Miasma II is generally not worth the bother, but as Kevee stated there actually isn't a reason why we cannot be in melee. For the majority of fights, being in melee is no detriment to us, and we can supplement dps with autoattacking too (you can right click to autoattack while using instacast abilities). Miasma II is a 0.17% dps increase, autoattacking is actually more of a dps increase probably, but again, its generally not enough of a margin to make a difference.

    Suffice to say though that the rotation is for maximum dps. For convenience and "reward vs effort" you are welcome to make your own assessment, and if you do drop anything I would drop miasma II from your rotation first.
    (0)
    Last edited by pandabearcat; 10-09-2013 at 11:01 PM.

  7. #17
    Player
    Vyserion's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Posts
    108
    Character
    Khyri Nhai
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Now, I'm not a Summoner, and Shadowflare may have different mechanics from my scholar to my summoner. However, so long as something is inside Shadowflare, I have noticed that its slow effect is always up. I actually use it for damage mitigation/damage during regular dungeon runs because... slow seems like a pretty good debuff.

    Miasma II is a soloing spell primarily. You shouldn't be in melee range in any fight where you actually need to use a maximized rotation, so you should probably drop it from this theorycrafting conversation.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    pandabearcat's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    1,517
    Character
    Alizebeth Bequin
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyserion View Post
    You shouldn't be in melee range in any fight where you actually need to use a maximized rotation.
    Why not?

    um...10chars.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    Vyserion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    108
    Character
    Khyri Nhai
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Cleaves, Tailswipes, Movement (Since most of your skills have a cast time, high movement fights negatively impact your damage in ways that don't affect Monks and Dragoons as much) and any fight with plume / targeted aoe mechanics means you're just another body and another change that the tank will have to move, which is usually a no-no. Now, naturally if none of those things is an issue you can replace any Ruin/Ruin II with Miasma II but it seems silly to have to say that.

    I did have a question though, I was wondering why open with Bio II over Miasma. Is it a preference thing, or do the number synch up better?
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    pandabearcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,517
    Character
    Alizebeth Bequin
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    You should stand where the melee stand...generally you won't get tailswiped (you shouldn't anyway).

    Do you know if there are issues with Coil? Kevee said no, and frankly I wouldn't have thought down the melee train except he insisted there was no reason not to.

    Thinking about it, it makes sense.

    For primals,

    Ifrit - melee is a nono, the knockback is stupid.
    Garuda - melee is a tossup. I personally like it, because her melee aoe seems to interrupt me less than her ranged aoe (go figure). However, melee during plumes lets you miasma the plumes, so no reason not to.
    Titan - same thing, every melee needs to move for plumes regardless, and you move just as much as if you were ranged.

    For AK,

    Cthulu - No reason not to be. Just don't face the add towards tank or healer
    Demonwall - Melee is fine until bees (if you get bees), and then just stay away from the tank.
    Gargoyal - You want to be in melee to not have to move when imminent destruction occurs. Make sure to move out for the beam and add. Should be on side and not butt to not get tailswiped.
    Adds - No reason not to be, for succubus no reason to be either, for everything else, be on their butts so you dont' get cleaved.

    People put up Bio II because it lasts the longest.

    For me, I don't care, I usually use miasma cause its the button on my bar first lol. To be fair though, it DOES line up better with BIO II, because if you miasma first, it will have same duration as bio I, and you will have to choose or clip to refresh both.
    (0)

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