WARNING: DO NOT add a kick / boot feature.

[Kort]

I hope they do not implement a kick feature. Could you imagine a PS3 player getting his first slow run on Prae or CM getting booted by PC speed runners because it takes an extra 8 seconds for them to load after cut scenes. They really need an AFK timer or some level of minimum participation to get credit for tomes.

You already see the shouts in RT for runs that state "NO PS3 Users".

[Rsthaliot]

People used to run AK "under geared" all the time. Then they found out how to speed run things and now these people are too good to run it the way it was supposed to be run. It wouldn't drop the next level gear if SE didn't intend on it being ran when that gear was needed.

This wasn't a rant at YOU. Just a rant in your post. sorry

But I agree with you. The most realistic option is a higher level Philo dungeon that drops more tomes. Most under gear wipes are due to insane aggro drawn from high geared players. The problem is both parties need this dungeon, I was presenting her with a solution she may prefer as that would be far better then a kick system because the environment around speed run dungeons is half nice people trying grind up, and half extremely toxic opportunists. The later half is a big issue. That said, the video attached is proof. I also think though there needs to be gear too high and gear too low restrictions. Because a level 30 sword is pushing it hard.

http://youtu.be/U9qLEHSLu8M

[Farmer]

A vote-kick will require all 3 other members in a 4 man, and probably at least 5 in an 8 man party. There's nothing wrong with that. The damage done by trolls and afkers is far worse than not having vote-kick.

Simple solution if you don't want to be afraid of being kicked: Don't go into something undergeared unless you're doing so with friends. Though this won't be a problem when they add gear requirements in 2.1 (thank goodness).

Your saying that the whole community has to meet your standards to use a PUBLIC duty finder. Shouldnt it be the other way around? If you dont like a PUBLIC service then dont use it and you shouldnt have the power to kick people from a PUBLIC service so you can have higher standards of use for it.

your also telling people if you dont want a bad experience of someone booting you for reasons other then being AFK or Badmouthing, you shouldnt use the PUBLIC duty finder... I'm at a loss of words.

Guess it all comes down to what your definition of undergeared is also, alot of people who will boot you would think full darklight on an AK or CM run should be the standard. What of those people and the amount of kicking they would do compared to your 1% encounters with afk'rs or badmouthers?

Just the other day I heard shouts for CM speed runs, must have full darklight and relics... I have no doubt these people would kick any duty finder player who was unfortunate enough to enter thier party and does not meet thier outragiously rediculous standards.

[Kaedan94]

Your saying that the whole community has to meet your standards to use a PUBLIC duty finder. Shouldnt it be the other way around? If you dont like a PUBLIC service then dont use it and you shouldnt have the power to kick people from a PUBLIC service so you can have higher standards of use for it.

your also telling people if you dont want a bad experience of someone booting you for reasons other then being AFK or Badmouthing, you shouldnt use the PUBLIC duty finder... I'm at a loss of words.

Huh? I think you're confused.

I'm saying that the community should meet the standards of the majority of the party. Did you miss the word "vote" in vote kick? In a party of 4, if 3 people agree that one person is not pulling their weight in some way (undergeared, unwilling to learn mechanics, AFK, bad behavior, etc) then it's perfectly reasonable to kick them. And it will add a degree of accountability that insofar has been lacking in the DF.

And no, I didn't say don't use the DF... I said make sure you aren't undergeared unless completing it with friends who are willing to carry you.

[Invz]

http://youtu.be/U9qLEHSLu8M

This video is a bad example. I saw in the video the BLM had a relic, WHM had ifrits cane, and the WAR had a relic plus all DL accessories. Trade those weapons and accessories for ilvl 40ish weapons and I bet that run wouldn't have went so well.

[Invz]

Just the other day I heard shouts for CM speed runs, must have full darklight and relics... I have no doubt these people would kick any duty finder player who was unfortunate enough to enter thier party and does not meet thier outragiously rediculous standards.

Their standards may seem ridiculous to you but that is probably why they were forming a premade party instead of using the duty finder.

[Farmer]

Huh? I think you're confused.

I'm saying that the community should meet the standards of the majority of the party. Did you miss the word "vote" in vote kick? In a party of 4, if 3 people agree that one person is not pulling their weight in some way (undergeared, unwilling to learn mechanics, AFK, bad behavior, etc) then it's perfectly reasonable to kick them. And it will add a degree of accountability that insofar has been lacking in the DF.

And no, I didn't say don't use the DF... I said make sure you aren't undergeared unless completing it with friends who are willing to carry you.

Just because its a vote doesnt mean its going to be the right vote.

I guess the question is, should SE be setting the standard of a dungeon they created, or should players of a party using a PUBLIC duty finder service be able to do set that standard by giving anyone below an unknown standard set by party members a vote to be kicked?

My opinion is that SE should set the standard for dungeons and not players. if players want to set a standard they can do it in a private setting and not in a PUBLIC setting (duty finder) that creates a bad exeperience for players who do not meet that unknown standard by having to be kicked by a party after waiting 45 mins to join that party.

Again, the ONLY time someone should be booted or kicked from a Public party is due to being AFK or bad mouthing other players, anything beyond that and it doesnt become a democracy, but a tool to crush the minority players who are doing nothing wrong.

It is quite clear that people would use a system thats intended for afk and bad mouth behaviour to be used to set the standard of gear for a dungeon, which should be SE who sets that standard... this couldnt be a better example of why its bad to put in a kick / boot system.

[Zakalwe]

Today I has a blm who queued up into praetorium and sat at the entrance the whole time. He was not afk, he just refused to participate. He was there from first boss to the end. We had no way to remove him and we had to 7 man the dungeon as a result. We need SOME kind of power to deal with these jerks.

I only wish our BLM experience today in CM was as good as afk. Ours alternated between sitting down as we fought and actively going out of his way to mess up our fights by aggroing mobs we could bypass or pulling in extra adds we didn't need. He obviously soon ceased getting heals, but after sulking a while at the entrance after dying he, alas, kept coming back.

[Kaedan94]

I guess the question is, should SE be setting the standard of a dungeon they created, or should players of a party using a PUBLIC duty finder service be able to do set that standard by giving anyone below an unknown standard set by party members?

My opinion is that SE should set the standard for dungeons and not players. if players want to set a standard they can do it in a private setting and not in a PUBLIC setting that creates a bad exeperience for players who do not meet that unknown standard.

2.1 will be adding a gear check to DF so you can't enter dungeons undergeared, so there's your "SE setting the standards" right there.

Again, the ONLY time someone should be booted or kicked from a Public party is due to being AFK or bad mouthing other players, anything beyond that and it doesnt become a democracy, but a tool to crush the minority players who are doing nothing wrong.

This is simply untrue. There are MANY times where the reason people are failing is either due to someone unwilling or unable to grasp the mechanics of the fight, or are simply too far undergeared to complete it. A perfect example was last night running AK. Three of us had sufficient gear for the dungeon, one was a fresh 50 with AF and a 44 weapon. We taught him as best we could as we went and were quite patient with him on the Demon Wall. We attempted it at least 6-7 times before it was determined that he was just dying too much. So we politely asked him to leave. Luckily, he did (though this was all in Japanese... I doubt your average NA player would have been so understanding). We opened up the finder to find a replacement. The replacement was properly geared but was running it for the first time. We talked him through it and managed to finish the dungeon.

[Farmer]

Two issues people keep using as a reason for a kick boot system seem to be the bad mouthing and afk, but also would use it for gear standards.

We want to get rid of afk'rs, and badmouthers, but not be falsley removed from a party... So we should come up with genius fixes that do what we want but never give players the option to kick or boot players which should only be in the hands of SE. Below is three ways I would accomplish this goal and prevent abuse of a system that boots and kicks people maliciously.

1. I think SE should have a option to report badmouthing by having one player report another for bad mouthing, and if that player uses a cencored ???? laungage again, it automaticly boots that person.

2. I think for afk players, if a player is reported, they should get a countdown to move and take action within 5 mins of being reported or be removed from dungeon.

3. Add a dungeon gear level minimum to dungeons, that would make the minimum gear it would take for the worst geared person to finish the dungeon. A level that SE feels is fair and reasonable to low gear lvl first time players who are running that dungeon for the first time.