WARNING: DO NOT add a kick / boot feature.

[Farmer]

A vote-kick will require all 3 other members in a 4 man, and probably at least 5 in an 8 man party. There's nothing wrong with that. The damage done by trolls and afkers is far worse than not having vote-kick.

Simple solution if you don't want to be afraid of being kicked: Don't go into something undergeared unless you're doing so with friends. Though this won't be a problem when they add gear requirements in 2.1 (thank goodness).

Your saying that the whole community has to meet your standards to use a PUBLIC duty finder. Shouldnt it be the other way around? If you dont like a PUBLIC service then dont use it and you shouldnt have the power to kick people from a PUBLIC service so you can have higher standards of use for it.

your also telling people if you dont want a bad experience of someone booting you for reasons other then being AFK or Badmouthing, you shouldnt use the PUBLIC duty finder... I'm at a loss of words.

Guess it all comes down to what your definition of undergeared is also, alot of people who will boot you would think full darklight on an AK or CM run should be the standard. What of those people and the amount of kicking they would do compared to your 1% encounters with afk'rs or badmouthers?

Just the other day I heard shouts for CM speed runs, must have full darklight and relics... I have no doubt these people would kick any duty finder player who was unfortunate enough to enter thier party and does not meet thier outragiously rediculous standards.

[Kaedan94]

Your saying that the whole community has to meet your standards to use a PUBLIC duty finder. Shouldnt it be the other way around? If you dont like a PUBLIC service then dont use it and you shouldnt have the power to kick people from a PUBLIC service so you can have higher standards of use for it.

your also telling people if you dont want a bad experience of someone booting you for reasons other then being AFK or Badmouthing, you shouldnt use the PUBLIC duty finder... I'm at a loss of words.

Huh? I think you're confused.

I'm saying that the community should meet the standards of the majority of the party. Did you miss the word "vote" in vote kick? In a party of 4, if 3 people agree that one person is not pulling their weight in some way (undergeared, unwilling to learn mechanics, AFK, bad behavior, etc) then it's perfectly reasonable to kick them. And it will add a degree of accountability that insofar has been lacking in the DF.

And no, I didn't say don't use the DF... I said make sure you aren't undergeared unless completing it with friends who are willing to carry you.

[Farmer]

Huh? I think you're confused.

I'm saying that the community should meet the standards of the majority of the party. Did you miss the word "vote" in vote kick? In a party of 4, if 3 people agree that one person is not pulling their weight in some way (undergeared, unwilling to learn mechanics, AFK, bad behavior, etc) then it's perfectly reasonable to kick them. And it will add a degree of accountability that insofar has been lacking in the DF.

And no, I didn't say don't use the DF... I said make sure you aren't undergeared unless completing it with friends who are willing to carry you.

Just because its a vote doesnt mean its going to be the right vote.

I guess the question is, should SE be setting the standard of a dungeon they created, or should players of a party using a PUBLIC duty finder service be able to do set that standard by giving anyone below an unknown standard set by party members a vote to be kicked?

My opinion is that SE should set the standard for dungeons and not players. if players want to set a standard they can do it in a private setting and not in a PUBLIC setting (duty finder) that creates a bad exeperience for players who do not meet that unknown standard by having to be kicked by a party after waiting 45 mins to join that party.

Again, the ONLY time someone should be booted or kicked from a Public party is due to being AFK or bad mouthing other players, anything beyond that and it doesnt become a democracy, but a tool to crush the minority players who are doing nothing wrong.

It is quite clear that people would use a system thats intended for afk and bad mouth behaviour to be used to set the standard of gear for a dungeon, which should be SE who sets that standard... this couldnt be a better example of why its bad to put in a kick / boot system.

[Kaedan94]

I guess the question is, should SE be setting the standard of a dungeon they created, or should players of a party using a PUBLIC duty finder service be able to do set that standard by giving anyone below an unknown standard set by party members?

My opinion is that SE should set the standard for dungeons and not players. if players want to set a standard they can do it in a private setting and not in a PUBLIC setting that creates a bad exeperience for players who do not meet that unknown standard.

2.1 will be adding a gear check to DF so you can't enter dungeons undergeared, so there's your "SE setting the standards" right there.

Again, the ONLY time someone should be booted or kicked from a Public party is due to being AFK or bad mouthing other players, anything beyond that and it doesnt become a democracy, but a tool to crush the minority players who are doing nothing wrong.

This is simply untrue. There are MANY times where the reason people are failing is either due to someone unwilling or unable to grasp the mechanics of the fight, or are simply too far undergeared to complete it. A perfect example was last night running AK. Three of us had sufficient gear for the dungeon, one was a fresh 50 with AF and a 44 weapon. We taught him as best we could as we went and were quite patient with him on the Demon Wall. We attempted it at least 6-7 times before it was determined that he was just dying too much. So we politely asked him to leave. Luckily, he did (though this was all in Japanese... I doubt your average NA player would have been so understanding). We opened up the finder to find a replacement. The replacement was properly geared but was running it for the first time. We talked him through it and managed to finish the dungeon.

[Invz]

Just the other day I heard shouts for CM speed runs, must have full darklight and relics... I have no doubt these people would kick any duty finder player who was unfortunate enough to enter thier party and does not meet thier outragiously rediculous standards.

Their standards may seem ridiculous to you but that is probably why they were forming a premade party instead of using the duty finder.