WARNING: DO NOT add a kick / boot feature.

[Jynx]

It's happening slowly but surely people are seeing why the Duty finder is a terrible system to try and control. There is no way for the players themselves to police themselves or hold people accountable. Square Enix then needs to resort to holding our hands to telling us all to "Get along" in a futile attempt at controling the rampant vitrol that comes with annonimity and lack of recourse.

Slowly but surely people will turn away from the Duty Finder and hopefully there will be a day when we all can sit around and say "Remember when we thought that was a good idea? Lol"

[AAAFate]

@Farmer

These reasons are way easy on trolls and jerks out there. 5 mins? why so long? if the party kicks for afk there is a reason, they are afk, 5 mins is plenty of time to move a second and go back to watching tv. Should be 30 seconds at most. A group of people won't vote to kick someone who says "afk a min" I never see anyone complain when someone says something similar. The badmouthing option won't help anyone either can't be kicked for language since a filter is in place. Nothing wrong with an entire party voting to kick someone, and if party is full of players that like to grief single people and kick for no reason? sorry I just don't see it. Kicks would be used when justified. And as long as there is a ilvl req. no kicking due to low gear will exist anymore.

[Becken]

Unless they put in that you can only kick some many times per run, like a light party can only vote to kick once in a run, maybe a full party can vote to kick 3 times a run, or keep count how many times a player vote to kick a day

[Thagyr]

Considering they are adding a item level restriction system to dungeons, the concept of what is considered 'under-geared' will change. Since if the game allows those people in the dungeon, then SE believes they have every right to be there in order for it to be successful and the players have one less leg to stand on. Sure they'll be people who expect you to be in full ilevel 70 gear +relic to do AK/CM, but it's their fault for using Duty Finder with those unreasonable expectations and if they come in to be a jerk about it they'll be subject to the same kick system as the players they despise.

Suffice to say, the pros will outweigh the cons. As long as SE does the math and knows precisely what gear is required for each dungeon.

[Hayward]

Slowly but surely people will turn away from the Duty Finder and hopefully there will be a day when we all can sit around and say "Remember when we thought that was a good idea? Lol"

Having been through the various kinds of idiocy in FFXI for so many years ("Arrowburn/Manaburn/TPBurn only", "lol[insert misunderstood job here]", "R/M/E/D weapon only", among other messed up standards fed to wannabe elitists by BG), I will stand by the Duty Finder system. The flaws can be addressed as time goes on.

The case against the vote-kick system seems sound, but I'd like to see something that holds people accountable for actions that have negative effects on the party.

[Cylla]

I hate to say this, but it really a catch 22.
However, I'm all for some kind of system that removes people from AFKing/Leeching in a group and here is why:
Last night during an AK run I had a tank who got mad because we wipe on the last trash pull before the last boss. He got mad and while skipping the giants on the way up, he forced me, the brd, and blm in to cs and got us aggo and killed as he stood there and watched us die from coming out of the cs and then went AFK at the end boss and grief the party until finally the brd left and the blm left unhappy that he couldn't move forward in his relic quest. Of course I reported it, but we all know how SE takes action on this kinda stuff....people most likely don't even get a 2 day ban for it. Nobody scared and they know they can get away with it.

Today during a CM run: Get to the last boss again and the OT says, "I'm going to get food, you got this MT?" and then goes AFK during the last boss fight and of course we couldn't get him killed because he stayed in the CS the whole time. He pretty much leeched the 100 tomes as the rest of the run he wouldn't even pick up adds off the DD and healers.

Something needs to be done and this whole MVP system that SE doing not going to fix a damn thing. There will be people out there that won't care one bit if they are getting voted up or not. They will still AFK/Leech during a run or just be down right @(#)#( to screw people over.
If not a vote kick, then what? How and when is this crap going to stop? If it doesn't soon the game going to become not so enjoyable and people are going to quit playing and then more whining will start because DF will be even worse for finding tanks and healers.
I as a healer have personally started doing my own LS/FC runs now that there enough 50's. I've gotten sick of this behavior from other players and I'm not all for getting freeloaders free loot/tomes.

[Sylve]

@Farmer

These reasons are way easy on trolls and jerks out there. 5 mins? why so long? if the party kicks for afk there is a reason, they are afk, 5 mins is plenty of time to move a second and go back to watching tv. Should be 30 seconds at most. A group ofpeople won't vote to kick someone who says "afk a min" I never see anyone complain when someone says something similar. The badmouthing option won't help anyone either can't be kicked for language since a filter is in place. Nothing wrong with an entire party voting to kick someone, and if party is full of players that like to grief single people and kick for no reason? sorry I just don't see it. Kicks would be used when justified. And as long as there is a ilvl req. no kicking due to low gear will exist anymore.

And if im in a CM, and right after a trash pack, i announce i need to go to the toilet. Takes me about 30 seconds to TO the toilet in my house, let alone do whats needed and get back. And the people who live in multi story houses? And what about people who ask for a minute to answer the phone?

Every system can and will be abused. Vote kicks can be abused. AFK checks can be abused.
Gear boots cant happen because we get ilvl reqs on DF queues at the same time. We cant have undergeared players in DF runs after that.
There are systems they can put in to stop most unrequired boots.
For example, when kicking, have a box open with options containing legit reasons for a kick. Harrassment and long AFKs, Im talking 10+ minutes, if you haven't attacked anything in that time or spoken, then you become eligible for an AFK kick, initiating a Harassment kick would cause a slight check in the chat logs, certain keywords would cause you to be come eligible for that.
However it should require all party members agreeing on the reason for the Vote, not just "Kick yes/no?".

No matter what safeguards you put in place however, The Tank will basically be allowed to do what he wants with impunity because Tank queue is instant, "do what i tell you or ill ditch you to another 40 minutes waiting for a tank" is what we will see a lot.

[Rochetm]

Letting people kick is going to be nothing but bad. The abuse we have now is NOTHING compared to what it will be. If you played WoW you would know that. Giving people another way to be a dbag is not helpful.

[Valarice]

I only wish our BLM experience today in CM was as good as afk. Ours alternated between sitting down as we fought and actively going out of his way to mess up our fights by aggroing mobs we could bypass or pulling in extra adds we didn't need. He obviously soon ceased getting heals, but after sulking a while at the entrance after dying he, alas, kept coming back.

this blm (my groups blm) i'm assuming wanted us to succeed so he could get his 100 tomes, he just didnt want to participate and wanted them for free but yeah, that sucks.

[Amberion]

Having been through the various kinds of idiocy in FFXI for so many years ("Arrowburn/Manaburn/TPBurn only", "lol[insert misunderstood job here]", "R/M/E/D weapon only", among other messed up standards fed to wannabe elitists by BG), I will stand by the Duty Finder system. The flaws can be addressed as time goes on.

The case against the vote-kick system seems sound, but I'd like to see something that holds people accountable for actions that have negative effects on the party.

Misunderstood job? S-E is completely crap at balancing classes. How long ago was it they "balanced" rangers? Only time you see them now is if they decided to get off the dust of the gear only. BLM has gone from the best endgame class, to arguably the second worst.

In this game they have a decent balancing. But with new content and gear, I bet we will see jobs pulling ahead or get left behind.

Anyway, for the vote system. It will always carry good and bad things with it. But as with everything else in the game, it's up to the players of how it will be used.