'allo there dps, fine day we're having. Question for ya!

[Steeled]

So, okay, I've got to know this..

Why do some dps attack whatever willy-nilly target they like? If you're so geared that you can out-hate me on my main target, put me to shame, I welcome it.

(No really, because if you're that geared, letting you go all out lets the run go so much faster).

However, most dps are not that geared, so let me explain how this should work.

I'm the tank, I pick (and I always mark my main target!) a target because I'm the first into battle. I've also got to deal with the brunt of the damage, and dodging, so this is a privelege of being a tank.

If you attack something else, the healer has to heal you, and cause more threat on mobs than if they were healing me (simply because you require more healing than me). I could fight you for hate, but then, as usually happens, the other dps is hitting my marked target, and he may catch up to my enmity if shenanigans start early enough in the pull.

As long as the ordering is right, the quicker each thing dies, the easier the pull gradually becomes. For instance, if there's a pack with a healer mob in it, that should probably die first (always has so far). The quicker that dies, the less healing other mobs receive, and the shorter the fight goes. As the fight goes on, with mobs dying, healers have to heal me less and thus produce less enmity. This may let me slow down on my aoe enmity, recovering some mp (or tp in warrior's case), for the next pull.

If you're attacking a target different than mine, you are Doing It Wrong.

There is an exception, I will switch target when I have more enmity than the mob has health remaining (ensuring that it will hit me til you hit it to death). I do this because it lets me pop up another marker, lets me use flash a bit less, and let's me put my str down debuff on something else (I can do that with sub-targeting, and do, but this still helps).

Technically, any time you pull hate off a tank, when he's playing properly, you're doing it wrong, but like I said. For me, personally, if you can crank so much DPS that you outhate me, I welcome it. Get that trash dead. But please, give me a break on bosses.

However, some tanks don't take to it so kindly. It can be frustrating to deal with and this is what causes some tanks to enter the instance on the offensive. For you behaving dps, and healers, note that for every rude tank you've encountered, he's probably encounter 5 dps that just do whatever they want.

I recall, humorously, the first pull of one AK. I targeted the summoning caster, started beating it down, and a drg pulls hate on whatever he's attacking. The other 3, all friends, pipe up "Why was Polly Arm tanking?" (Polly Arm is a made up name). I reply "First, I mark my target, he should be attacking that, and second, on the pulls of these casters, it's important to get the one with the staff dead first, before he summons a demon." Some whining ensued, some d-baggery, and I politely made my exit and let them wait for another tank to troll (sorry to whoever that unfortunate fellow may have been).

Please though, until there is better reason to attack a different target than "It's hard to tab", consider that we're there to do a task and you can make it so much easier by just following our order.

I spread my dots,I pull hate on trash, I tank,I don't bitch about why I'm tanking some of them.

I pull hate on other mobs right away when tank is lazy and don't tab target, some tanks that do tab target, I still pull hate from, but it happens later.

Haha, yeah, but see that's okay, and that's how the job is meant to be played. I'm talking about people that specifically focus on the wrong target.

Mostly I get tired of dps in full AF feeling like they can tank. Sometimes I let them die, but usually not, because even their mediocre dps speeds the kill up.

[glim]

I spread my dots,I pull hate on trash, I tank,I don't bitch about why I'm tanking some of them.

I pull hate on other mobs right away when tank is lazy and don't tab target, some tanks that do tab target, I still pull hate from, but it happens later.

[NeoAmon]

Meh... assume everyone is an idiot and just tank everything...

[Kalvarien]

Simply put, this is why there are pre-mades, and this is why there are pugs.

While I find it difficult to disagree with most of what you wrote, most of the people you are speaking to, don't care enough to even read the forums. So predominantly you're preaching to those who already know what you mean. I understand the rage though entirely, happy hunting.

[Hysterior]

Since we have so many "Tank complain about DPS" "Tank complain about healer" "healer complain about tank" and "healer complain about DPS" threads, it is good time for DPS to start complaining as well.
And if they could do it in 15 different topics with the same goal that would be awesome!

EDIT:
I am all for helping, anytime
But there are too many threads about X blame Y for failing and not enough on team failed because people lost concept of teamwork
I think the game is having a kind of community crisis right now where there is a need to point finger and tell other people how to do their job (especially on the english boards)
sorry if I sounded rude, just slowly getting disappointed in the end-game experience and these boards

[Steeled]

It's funny how your post contradicts your signature.

I'm not really complaining. I'm trying to inform DPS that care about why what they're doing is wrong. The title was friendly/comical and the post offered an explanation, and even an example.

DPS do complain about tanks, they complain every time they, or anyone, does something wrong including tanks not being able to hold supreme threat on the whole instance and healers who can't heal at least as well as LB2 100% of the time.

I'm just trying to get it through to people that the best way to kill all this stuff is to work together. You are not helping anyone by being a solo superhero.

To everyone else, thanks for the comments and feedback. I know that 75% of the people who agree with this line of thought already are smart enough to do it, but maybe there is that guy who wants to learn and this is his first mmo.

[Ronove]

Tanks who mark their targets are the best tanks. It just keeps everyone on the same page and we're all golden. I don't like it when tanks don't mark because then I have to target them and then target whatever enemy they're wailing on to stay on the same page and it can get messy. Marking is the best way, seriously. It helps everyone work together and know the goal in mind.

Granted, it took me a bit to figure out how to gauge if I'm attacking too early or the hate I'm getting (oh, the enemy's names change color? WHY DIDN'T ANYONE SAY SO) and the helpful gauges next to our names. So if a DPS clearly doesn't get the hint, it doesn't hurt to stop and say hey, don't attack the enemy until their name is red cause that means I've grabbed it and keep an eye on the little gauge near your name it tells you if you're out-hating me or close to. If they keep not listening, well... they are a loss cause and you just gotta grin and bear it (unless it's SO bad you have to leave because let's be honest, some people (tanks, healers, and dps alike) are just that bad).

[Gunba]

It's pretty stupid to complain about this kind of behaviour because it's a behaviour limited to only DPS.

It essentially boils down to 'people make mistakes'. If tanks could somehow attack 'the wrong target', most of them probably would.

I don't see any reason to assume that DPS are playing worse than any tank or healer because they attack the wrong mob.

[Vagrant-0]

If everyone actually bothered to watch their enmity bars and adjust their actions accordingly, everything would work for the better. Sadly, most don't even see them. Sadder still, time and again, the usual approach I've seen many people take is to attack full on with all their abilities right at the start of the fight before the tank has bothered to build up enough hate... Despite the fact that this almost always results in those mobs being pulled off the tank. DPS should also always hold off on their attacks until the tank starts with combo attacks, it just works better that way.

The enmity bars appear under your party icons when you select an enemy. They're even numbered so that you can plainly see who is hated more. Generally speaking, DPS should try to remain in the 2 or 3 slot and throttle or use abilities as needed to remain in this position so that if the tank does get killed by something, the healer is last on the list to be attacked. Every ability you use on an enemy has an enmity component to it, especially holds, dots, or other debuffs. An experienced DPS should be using these to try and maintain the amount of hate on the active target within a given threshold.

There is nothing wrong with spreading out your dots over a group. BUT you should be aware of how much enmity they generate compared to how many area effect taunts the tank has made against those targets and should be fully aware of any mobs that will be put to sleep so that your spreading doesn't interrupt this or cause your pet to decide to attack these things.

Likewise, the tank should always open up a fight by trying to build enmity on all combatants as soon as they can, even if that target will be put to sleep. The reason being that without this initial enmity built up on the mobs, the healer will usually end up being targeted as soon as the sleep wears off, someone attacks it, or healing ends up causing more hate than the tank built from the start. You can't expect a single flash and shield throw to hold any sort of enmity, nor should Warriors limit themselves solely to Warrior skills. Your job is tanking, it is your responsibility to know how to use your skills to ensure enough attention is focused on you at all times.


Put simply, EVERYONE, not just one member of the party needs to be on the ball regarding how enmity is handled, even if it means doing less damage. The extra time you get for using raging strikes and all your instant abilities on a mob is usually negated by the time it takes for the tank to run back to where you are and fight for enmity while the healer tries to keep you both alive... Made worse by the fact that other mobs will soon target the healer adding even more work to the tank.

[Marael]

You realize that the overwhelmingly vast majority of tanks in this game don't have the first clue as to how to mark targets, therefore very few dps have ever had any experience with it. They're used to tanks being able to hold a whole group of mobs while they whittle them down. So, are you complaining that you don't know how to keep more than one mob at a time on you, or that no one knows what target marking is? Even tanks that don't know how to mark targets can usually keep a whole group of mobs occupied. So, like, why can't you?