WAR Dex and Parry testing!

[Kaalan]

If you say so.
But I guess you understand everything and that's probably why you can't give any reason/fact/number in a entire page. Doctor in Statistics here I guess, eh.

[Derza]

If you say so.
But I guess you understand everything and that's probably why you can't give any reason/fact/number in a entire page. Doctor in Statistics here I guess, eh.

Look it is obvious the sample size isn't large enough to make any solid conclusions - if you can raise both dex and parry but have parry rate drop by 1.69%.

Test 1:

189 Dex
440 Parry

Registered 24.88% Parry rate.

Test 2:

216 Dex
456 Parry

Registered 23.19% Parry rate.

You would have to ASSUME that neither threshold was met for both dex and parry for the second test and then you could average the two to get a more accurate value... but doing this based off an assumption that threshold values are the same for both is ... well a very poor way to get any sort of solid information.

[Kaalan]

Additionally, my post shows that it is my belief that it is not going from 23.19% to 27.91% but rather 24% to 27% on an increase of 50 dex (probably 45 in best case). Please show me a ring that does this.

What. The. Hell.

I'm maybe not as super awesome as you when talking about stats but you seem to be clueless about, uh.. the game ?
Both rings give 9 DEX, in fact, every acc give 9 DEX.
Now, you take only 3 of them, what do you get ? YUP, that's right, 27 DEX.

Now, you can maybe confirm since you're a math teacher and I'm not, but I'm almost entirely sure that 27 < 45.
But wait ! We can get 18 with rings.
I used my calculator to make sure of it since I don't know shit, but it turns out that 27+18=...
Yup, that's right, 45 ! It's like, damn, it makes so muche sens here !

Now, I already have those 27 DEX from my ears, neck, and wrists. What am I going to do with my poor fingers.
Well, I could use some tank acc on them, probably waisting, at least, a good amount of those 27 DEX I already have (12 of them ?) meld 10 VIT and 12 CRT on them and be left with a last slot where I could meld uh..
Well, what am I going to meld on that ? Piety maybe, I could use an extra flash I guess.. Na.
Det ? Meh, not that good.. Skill speed is kinda the same.. Damn, what am I going to do with that last slot.. I could meld DEX on that !

OH ! I know ! I could use 2 DPS rings, I almost forgot they were freaking giving me exactly 45 and on top of that I could use those 5 slot to get 10 VIT, 12 CRT and 9 parry.

Wouhou, this is so OP, it's like, I get a "free" usefull stat with that trade giving me, in the worst case scenario, 1% more chance of parrying.

Let me think about it, 1% parry or nothing.. Hm...
Meh, I guess I'll take nothing, this math teacher said it was bad.

Look it is obvious the sample size isn't large enough to make any solid conclusions - if you can raise both dex and parry but have parry rate drop by 1.69%.

Well yes it's fucking obvious, you really needed #1 to know that ? Is this your first game ?
Jesus.

It's like I never said "around 3%" "~3" or stuff like that.

[Coramac]

If you say so.
But I guess you understand everything and that's probably why you can't give any reason/fact/number in a entire page. Doctor in Statistics here I guess, eh.

No, MBA with heavy focus on operations and logistics (inventory control- which is basically the same).

Didn't give you a reason? I just posted why you needed #1 and #2 together to establish a parry rate for the two of them. We're dealing with probabilities- if you hold things the same, you don't get the same result... If you flip a coin 16 times, you get 8 heads less than 20% of the time. You can't just do a parse and say "Well, obviously, this is the expected value."

Well yes it's fucking obvious, you really needed #1 to know that ? Is this your first game ?
Jesus.

You need it to determine that the 24.88% is a 24% parry and not a 25% parry. DERP.

Please show me a ring that does this.

Here's a combination of 5 items that gets me here.

Here you go.
https://www.hookedonphonics.com/

You would have to ASSUME that neither threshold was met for both dex and parry for the second test and then you could average the two to get a more accurate value... but doing this based off an assumption that threshold values are the same for both is ... well a very poor way to get any sort of solid information.

Not quite. You do not have to assume that both threshold values are the same. You have to assume that no thresholds were reached which is a very safe assumption for this scenario.

[Derza]

Wowa whats going on.... If you are just talking about the melded rings then sure but this post was about dex and parry - had nothing to do with rings... If you are melding rings then sure you arn't giving up anything to get that extra dex... of course more dex ... is well better than less dex... Had no idea that this post was so focused on melded rings!

Thought this post was about trying to find thresholds... but then again the way he did it was a very bad way to find those out... Changing both parry and dex for each test shows you nothing.

[Kaalan]

No, MBA with heavy focus on operations and logistics (inventory control- which is basically the same).

Well sorry, this is far from my first mmo and I'm used to things like that and don't need to be as rigourous as when handing a paper on statistics to know approximatively (because this is all we'll have till we can get our hands on a test serv).

Now the good (funny in fact) thing is that you said yourself that 45 DEX gives +3% chance of parrying, probably with 15 DEX for each thresholds.
Which is basically what I meant (sorry if its not obvious enough, not americain/canadian/english/..) and considering that, if you're still telling my that, when you're at 27 DEX, not going for the last 13 WITHOUT LOSING ANYTHING ELSE EXCEPT A BIT OF GILS, is the right way to do things then well...

[Kaalan]

Wowa whats going on.... If you are just talking about the melded rings then sure but this post was about dex and parry

Had a "discussion" with OP about rings a little bit less that a week ago. At that point, the "official" number for DEX was 211 (and 226) and we were arguinge whether DPS or Tank ring were better. My point was since you already reach 211 with ears/neck/wrists there was no point throwing more money into the DPS one (since it cost a little bit more to meld it if you wanna get the same stat but not with the DEX)
With those new numbers I just agreed on that point, that getting 45 DEX instead of 27 from acc was better, so DPS ring were probably indeed BiS.

But then I go a free Statistics lesson from a dude that said I was wrong while basically saying the same thing as me in the end.

[Coramac]

Now the good (funny in fact) thing is that you said yourself that 45 DEX gives +3% chance of parrying, probably with 15 DEX for each thresholds.

45 Dex above a certain number which I believe is probably 216 which means you have to gain a substantial amount of Dex before it matters. In terms of BIS, the initial threshold makes it so there isn't a BIS; there is a combination of gear that must be worn together as a set. Individually, they do not offer any real advantage. You either make a complete commitment to Dex and gain a fair bit more parry or you don't. For Ninjii, it took 57 Dex to hit 246. It would take your character 55 Dex. Adding 45 Dex gets most tanks 1% parry.

[Ninjiitstu]

You guys are more then welcome to replicate my results in the way you see fit. It probably wasn't the best way to do it, though it was the gear sets / stats I had access to at the time. If you want to do a test with some THOUSAND hits for each 1 dex you add from attributes to find the EXACT dex number, that would be great. Try not to fault me for spending like 15 hours gathering information for the betterment of WAR's everywhere.

[Maelwys]

45 Dex above a certain number which I believe is probably 216 which means you have to gain a substantial amount of Dex before it matters. In terms of BIS, the initial threshold makes it so there isn't a BIS; there is a combination of gear that must be worn together as a set. Individually, they do not offer any real advantage. You either make a complete commitment to Dex and gain a fair bit more parry or you don't. For Ninjii, it took 57 Dex to hit 246. It would take your character 55 Dex. Adding 45 Dex gets most tanks 1% parry.

I think this is pretty close.

From the STR testing at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/ we know that we gain exactly 1% Parry Strength for every 40.5 points of STR once we get over a certain baseline (243 STR)

If we assume that this "40.5" incremental value has some underlying ties to the character's base STR value at level 50 (not unreasonable) and that a similar baseline and increment system applies to their base DEX value (also not unreasonable) then we have a good starting point to look for data patterns.

The BASE STATS for a gearless level 50 Tank are slightly higher for STR than for DEX. This means that the baseline and increment values for STR are very likely slightly higher than for DEX as well.

If we take the numbers in the OP and assume a reasonable margin of error, the "baseline" for DEX would look to be somewhere around the 215-225 mark. That fits in with the rough difference between the baseline STR and DEX Stats of a gearless level 50 Tank... and it also isn't too far off the 211 figure we've previously been assuming.

Taking that as our DEX baseline, the numbers in the OP would then seem to imply that we get around a +1% increase in Parry Rate for every ~15-20 points of Parry, and a +1% increase in Parry Rate for every ~15-20 points of Dex once over the baseline.

We need a bit more testing, but if I was a betting man, I'd say they have balanced the Parry thresholds as roughly:

+ STR Baseline = Normalised Base Tank STR at level 50 * X
+ DEX Baseline = Normalised Base Tank DEX at level 50 * X
+ Additional % Parry Strength = Y * ((STR*X) - STR Baseline)
+ Additional % Parry Rate = 2Y * ((DEX*X) - DEX Baseline)