WAR and Wrath: Important Mechanics Discussed.

[Kitru]

So I went through 5 Halone combos, and I just kept falling further and further behind. So I decided to see what would happen if I swapped to Sword Oath. Within 3 Halone combos I was at the top and tanking the boss. I may have gotten a Spirits Within in there but that's neither here nor there. The other PLD didn't stop tanking the boss, I could clearly see them and their enmity didn't just fall off, each halone combo only put me a sliver closer and it only took 3 to close the gap.

If you were behind for 37.5 seconds and it took 22.5 seconds with a 6.7% increase in enmity generation, the other tank would have had to have been generating only 2.5% more enmity per GCD than you. At margins that small, a single crit on your end or a miss on his/her end would be more than enough for you to pull ahead. Since the level difference at that point is more than enough for there to be a not-insubstantial chance to miss, I'm more than willing to bet it was the RNG that made you pull ahead.

As for more anecdotal testing, I've run Garuda HM loads and loads of times where the OT runs in DPS mode and spends the entire first phase beating on the boss (tank damage on the adds is negligible so I generally tell the OT to not even bother). Not once has the OT even gotten *close* to my enmity on the boss, even when it's a PLD in Sword Oath who's only real option is Halone spam. Even accounting for the slight aggro advantage gained with the Shield Lob pull, the OT would *have* to at least make some strides on closing the enmity gap and, no matter what, that gap either gets larger or stays exactly where it is.

Even when I was leveling my PLD, the same thing happened: I never had anyone that *wasn't* in a tank stance get close to pulling enmity off of me. I ran Svara *so* many times it approached the disgusting and the only time that I was ever *not* the one tanking her was when there was a WAR that was 2 levels higher than me running in Defiance and we spent a lot of that time trading enmity back and forth, which suggests that we were matched and RNG variations like crits and misses were making the difference.

Much of the problem I can see with this debate is that the only real evidence is anecdotal and much of that is contradictory, in no small part thanks to the utter inability to actually control a *lot* of important variables (gear, skill, stat allotment). The rigorously tested stuff hasn't been able to come to a reasonable conclusion because it's apparent that there are some unknown variables involved (it might just be that I'm a Miqo'te and you're a Roegadyn; the Ventus test surmised that there might be some hidden racial mod where Miqo'te generate a lot more enmity), and it's been impossible to find any solid numbers.

If you look at Enmity per global it's more than a 2% increase.

Yeah, I was dividing the enmity generation by the per-combo rather than by the per GCD, which is why it was roughly 1/3rd of what it should have been. My bad on that.

[Hachiko]

If you were behind for 37.5 seconds and it took 22.5 seconds with a 6.7% increase in enmity generation, the other tank would have had to have been generating only 2.5% more enmity per GCD than you. At margins that small, a single crit on your end or a miss on his/her end would be more than enough for you to pull ahead. Since the level difference at that point is more than enough for there to be a not-insubstantial chance to miss, I'm more than willing to bet it was the RNG that made you pull ahead.

It was a small margin which is why I decided to try. I was very close, but gradually going down (losing about a single sliver on the enmity bar every 2-3 rotations. After I took the boss though, she didn't go back. I was losing ground, slowly, to the tank in shield oath, and then I was gaining in sword oath. It wasn't rng or a fluke unless it was 30-50 seconds worth of flukes after I took the boss.

It's easier to judge in this situation, because when you are in a situation where you are already ahead, seeing the difference between ahead and more ahead is difficult, and seeing the difference of behind and less (or more) behind is also difficult.

[VahnValbosce]

Well apparently I got suspended for "being rude" not sure how that works, but yea.

Said I would post a screen of turn 4 and I have it, just couldn't post before.

Also an update on what Yoshi said himself on the live letter.



y; people also are testing rath and use gensho (english?? the healing one)
y; You should wait for heal before using gensho as you get more heal
y; PLD has high VIT but with WAR you can heal about same amount and if you have rath on you’ll take much more.
y; if you heal after rath the buff is gone so you’ll get lower hp
y; how you run through the pattern is really hard
y; for healers if the WAR uses gensho it’s hard to heal
y; for that reason people think WAR is softer tank than PLD
y; so we think this is bit too hard so we’ll be making changes in 2.1

[Viridiana]

Well apparently I got suspended for "being rude" not sure how that works, but yea.

Said I would post a screen of turn 4 and I have it, just couldn't post before.

And there's still a PLD in your pictures, so I'm going to continue to assume that he tanked the double dreads, because I assume you can't. >_>