"Fix Warrior" Threads

[KoujiMoreno]

Question, has there been any upcoming news about plans for warriors come patch?

[Calypsx]

Question, has there been any upcoming news about plans for warriors come patch?

Nope sadly. I'm worried about leveling it now honestly.

[KoujiMoreno]

I'm having a hard time with Titan. Not the fight, just the getting a group that is willing to take a WAR over a PLD.

[Taemek]

Wall of text incoming and guess what, I couldn't give a @&#$. This is the last post I make in this thread, for reasons that people can simply not have a logical discussion without flaming or trolling, not that I didn't expect anything less from a cess pool.

Those of you who have tried to keep it logical, civil, positive and friendly, I thank you.

Parry isn't avoidance in this game, it's mitigation. Featherfoot does not an evasion tank make.

Wrong game, block is no different than parry at it's core, they both reduce damage by +/- 25% when an attack is blocked/parried.

Taemek Warrior is in no means an avoidance tank. What are you smoking? It's self sustaining reactive. You have no higher evasion rate than the otehr tanking class in the game.

While avoidance tank might of been the inappropriate term to use, my point is still valid, that without the Block roll towards our ability to mitigate damage, it makes us *like* an avoidance based tank in the aspect that our damage intake is more spikey and ineffcient as the only real consistant we have is Parry.

Hooray for random numbers with nothing behind them.

170+ dps as a PLD is not unrealistic and has been shown and proven in other parses around the forums, terabyte himself claims he can do 160+ dps, so if a Warrior can do 10-20% more DPS (which no one is debating or arguing, this week) then a PLD, why does these numbers seem to surprise you? But hang on, last week Warrior DPS was the same as PLD and now all of a sudden people are agreeing that it is in the range of 10 - 20%+ difference? Hmmmm, I think the Warrior community needs to take a back seat and get thier stories straight if they want SE to take them seriously.

I suggest people start parsing some Warriors DPS, because we have and I can tell you right now, that it is not on par or below then PLD dps.

Also, I already said I am lazy and can't be bothered uploading or parsing with a 3rd party parser that is not supported by SE, not saying its wrong, just saying I can't be bothered, that however doesnt mean other people do it in the guild for us. So if you want to take anything I say with a grain of salt, no problem, I respect that and I too will take anything that is incorrectly analysed with out taking in to account every single possible varible and a full understanding of the algorithmic systematic process that is used to achieve said results, with a grain of salt.

More random, heavily opinionated, numbers.

Yoshi himself has said he would be surprised if 100 people have completed Coil by the time 2.1 is released, are you calling him a liar? If there was lets say, 1 million people playing this game and even 10% of them was up to coil, do you really think that 10'000 people from 100'000 are going to be through Coil when Yoshi already predicted 100? You are niave to think otherwise. I doubt there is even 2% doing coil without knowing any real numbers. No, this is not me trying to prove that less then 1% are in coil by using those numbers, so spare us your time on basic 101 math using my assumed hypothectical based numbers.




Anyways, enough has been repeated on this topic and I am not sure why no one has pointed out that because Block does not exsist for Warriors is why our damage intake is so much higher. Anyone who remotely negates this is clearly not with it and arguing for the sake of arguing.

Generally speaking at no one in particular, go throw more maths at us, please I beg you. Maths us in the face until your finger tips bleed, but until you accept that because Block is not present in a Warriors ability to mitigate damage we will simply never tank as hard, consistantly OR effciently as a PLD. Run the numbers on how Block affects a PLD's ability to negate damage and I am willing to bet, with out even doing the numbers myself, that Block alone is around 15% of his mitgated damage and let me be clear here, I am not talking Block rating which by the way is not even visable on the character sheet, maybe a bit more give or take a few percent based on gear and guess what, OH MY GOD, it makes up for the difference in healing required of that of a Warrior, imagine that....BUT WAIT, there is still more, the difference in healing required is NOT 20% more for a Warrior because for some unknown reason, no one factors in the HPS from a Warriors self heal ability and even then is it fair to use a HPS form of analysis when the healing from a Warriors self heals is burst and not consistant? In other words, as Terbyte says, we are more reactive in the sense we take the hit, we help the healer heal it. Now if you play your Warrior without helping the healer heal you, as your self heals are your form of Block mitigation, then you fail at playing a Warrior, simple as that. At the specific time of use, Warriors HPS may very well spike to 800 - 900 HPS for that brief 3 - 4 seconds. eHPS however may very well be as low as 150 - 200 HPS but this is not what you look for or how you correctly analyse the way it works it way in to mitigation for a Warrior.

Why everyone shrugs off the healing from these skills is beyond me, again it begs the question that people ethier do not know how to correctly utilize them or simply not even using them.

Let us hear more straw grabbing to support your already failed arguments, so many people have ripped all attempts at maths theroy crafting apart and proved you all wrong and the only retorts you have are:

"Grats on making life harder for your healers....."

Really guys? I am suppose to be the troll here, right?



TLDR; Block is still king, regardless how you want to chalk it up, Warriors simply do not get that extra form of mitigation. Some of the most intelligent people can be really dumb when it comes to only serving themselves and trying to push the point that only they want people to hear that only suites to serve thier purpose.

All in all, I couldn't really care less and am starting to wonder why i am concerning myself with this. If you guys whine enough for long enough, I am sure I will enjoy the buffs you throw my way even though I and my guild are enjoying the challenge that Warrior tanking permits, even though we know full well that a Paladin can do it better.

[Coramac]

Yoshi himself has said he would be surprised if 100 people have completed Coil by the time 2.1 is released, are you calling him a liar? If there was lets say, 1 million people playing this game and even 10% of them was up to coil, do you really think that 10'000 people from 100'000 are going to be through Coil when Yoshi already predicted 100? You are niave to think otherwise. I doubt there is even 2% doing coil without knowing any real numbers. No, this is not me trying to prove that less then 1% are in coil by using those numbers, so spare us your time on basic 101 math using my assumed hypothectical based numbers.

That sounds more naïve than lying.

Anyways, enough has been repeated on this topic and I am not sure why no one has pointed out that because Block does not exsist for Warriors is why our damage intake is so much higher. Anyone who remotely negates this is clearly not with it and arguing for the sake of arguing.

It is one of the reasons that it is higher. It is not the primary reason.

Generally speaking at no one in particular, go throw more maths at us, please I beg you. Maths us in the face until your finger tips bleed, but until you accept that because Block is not present in a Warriors ability to mitigate damage we will simply never tank as hard, consistantly OR effciently as a PLD. Run the numbers on how Block affects a PLD's ability to negate damage and I am willing to bet, with out even doing the numbers myself, that Block alone is around 15% of his mitgated damage and let me be clear here, I am not talking Block rating which by the way is not even visable on the character sheet, maybe a bit more give or take a few percent based on gear and guess what, OH MY GOD, it makes up for the difference in healing required of that of a Warrior, imagine that....BUT WAIT, there is still more, the difference in healing required is NOT 20% more for a Warrior because for some unknown reason, no one factors in the HPS from a Warriors self heal ability and even then is it fair to use a HPS form of analysis when the healing from a Warriors self heals is burst and not consistant? In other words, as Terbyte says, we are more reactive in the sense we take the hit, we help the healer heal it. Now if you play your Warrior without helping the healer heal you, as your self heals are your form of Block mitigation, then you fail at playing a Warrior, simple as that. At the specific time of use, Warriors HPS may very well spike to 800 - 900 HPS for that brief 3 - 4 seconds. eHPS however may very well be as low as 150 - 200 HPS but this is not what you look for or how you correctly analyse the way it works it way in to mitigation for a Warrior.

We have taken into account Warrior self healing. It's not nearly as effective as you believe it to be. Additionally, the Warrior loses his incoming healing buff. Heals are more effective on PLDs due to Shield Oath. The PLD is also more efficient due to superior CDs, blocking, and RoH.

TLDR; Block is still king, regardless how you want to chalk it up, Warriors simply do not get that extra form of mitigation. Some of the most intelligent people can be really dumb when it comes to only serving themselves and trying to push the point that only they want people to hear that only suites to serve thier purpose.

Block isn't king; it's just a nice added bonus. Shield Oath is, by itself, a ~9% advantage to the PLD if the WAR stays at Wrath V. That's a king maker. Additionally, the PLD cooldowns are just outstanding- Rampart (20% reduction), Sentinel (40% reduction), Hallowed Ground (100% reduction), Bulwark (substantial reduction vs. physical), Convalescence (+30% healing, better than WAR version). I'd the PLD has at least four, and I'd say 5, different defensive CDs that are better than every single WAR defensive CD and that's counting an empowered IB. That's another king maker. Block is nice. It's just not king level nice.

[RapBreon]

I am willing to bet, with out even doing the numbers myself, that Block alone is around 15% of his mitgated damage

I'm sure you'll be accosted for the rest of your post soon enough, but 15% is a bad bet. At 25% damage mitigated per block, you'd need to have a basic block chance of 60% for it to be a total of 15% mitigation. This would be under the best circumstances, like a block roll being done before a miss (which I almost entirely doubt), in which case it'd be higher than 60%.

I seriously doubt Pallies with decent gear have 60% chance to block.

[Coramac]

I'm sure you'll be accosted for the rest of your post soon enough, but 15% is a bad bet. At 25% damage mitigated per block, you'd need to have a basic block chance of 60% for it to be a total of 15% mitigation. This would be under the best circumstances, like a block roll being done before a miss (which I almost entirely doubt), in which case it'd be higher than 60%.

I seriously doubt Pallies with decent gear have 60% chance to block.

Not 100% sure, but he might have been saying it was 15% of the PLD advantage.

[Shinkyo]

As much as I want War to be on equal ground with PLD, I'd really want to keep the offensive tank concept and have our DPS being the key to our reactive mitigation.

How I'd fix WAR:
1 - Either add enmity to Storm path or Selfheal to BB. We absolutely need to have a constant self healing rotation.
2 - Make Steel Cyclone to add shield equal to 300% of damage. Basically giving us tools to do some mitigation before burst (Steel Cyclone) and after burst (IB).
3 - Make vengeance a skill that keeps track of incoming damage and applies a scaling dps factor to Steel Cyclone and IB while vengeance is active, thus scaling our Shield/Heal. Scaling factor should be a +% of dmg received/maxHP. The scaling factor and damage tracker is either reset after use of SC/IB (might be too powerful) or completely lost (deactivates vengeance).
4 - Make Unchained be affect by Vengeance as well with the same dps scaling factor concept so that combined with Bloodbath we get more heal from more dps.

[Shinkyo]

These are just concepts that I think would make WAR more reliable and interesting to play.
The key things I'm trying to address:
- we have 3 moves that costs all our wrath (which is a high price) so let's have real benefit from all of them.
- Vengeance should be about taking hits in order to hit back harder and improve the efficiency of our wrath draining moves.
- we need one tool to mitigate upfront. Steel Cyclone can be that tool and would work similar to IB but as a shield
- benefit from shield/heal scales with damage taken.

Now you'd need to carefully define the cooldown and the scaling factor so it's not OP but overall, I find these changes would make WAR really interesting.