"Fix Warrior" Threads

[Taemek]

@Taemak the problem throughout is notthign to do with dps but viability as a tank. The fact remains, regardless of numbers, that WAR mitigation is static.

After a certain incoming DPS (around 600~ apperently for full DL + Relic) PLD becomes better. Requires less healing and support from other party members.

It's not a question of viability, player skill or party make-up but rather efficiency. And PLD is more efficient in BC.

Yep, I never said it wasn't and this is how it always will be because avoidance based tanking is simply never as effcient as a class that is more designed to naturally take more hits.

This is a very slippery slope because how do you make an avoidance based tank, tank as effciently as a tank who is designed to take hits without making them overpowered? You simply can't because everyone knows that the best form of defense is to never get hit in the first place and if you trivalize encounters where you don't take hits, then we know who the flavour of the month will be, this unfortunately is the law and at the mercy of range based algorithums, you win some, you lose some.

Now everyone is saying how PLD's mitigation scales better then that of a Warrior, well when you look at how a Warrior mitigates damage, we mitigate it through our ability to heal ourselves and I believe that alot of people ethier misunderstand how the heals work, don't utilize them correctly or worse, undervalue how important they can be at crucial times and they shrug them off altogether and never use them in a hope that the healers can pull you through. The only way for a Warrior to scale his ability to heal himself is through his damage and like a PLD, the only way for him to do it is through his gear. At some point, the gear curve hits a brick wall because there will simply be no better options and at this point, there is no more scaling. From here, is where we get a better picture of what the classes need adjusted.

People misconfuse this to the extent where they believe that PLD's tank more effciently because of thier skills, it is because of the Block value, nothing more, nothing less. If you take away 1 entire roll as a form of mitigation, you are going to take more damage because of it, it is just common sense. Now if you done the same calculations using Block as a factor for Warriors, you would see they would be not only tank as effciently as a PLD, but more so because of the self heals. Now don't take me out of context here, I am not saying Warriors should be able to use a shield, I am simply stating the point that Block is king.

Even if this were true, you realize that those things are in no way a fair tradeoff, right? 10-20% more tank DPS (essentially meaningless) is sooooooooooooo much less useful than needing 10-20% less healing. Probably by close to an order of magnitude in actual usefulness. I still can't decide if you're just a really dedicated troll, or a complete idiot.

I disagree, if a Warrior can pull 200 - 250 dps in Defiance, then without Defiance up they become a contender for a DPS slot as well. So not only can they OT on the fly if needed to if shit hits the fan, but they can punch out some pretty good sustained DPS both in and out of Defiance.

I don't really feel there is any more to be said on the issue because people are starting to chim in almost daily on how they as Warriors are successfully MT'ing up to Turn 5 and beyond now, so I really don't see an issue if their groups are willing to put in the effort to accomplish it and on that note, I believe it makes them better players then those who hide behind a Paladin for easier mode.

Until there becomes a point where a Warrior simply cannot do it outright and SE say they are aware of the issue, then I think we can all agree that there is an issue. But while Warriors are still proving to able to do it, SE aren't going to bat an eye lid in this general direction.

[Hachiko]

Blah Blah Blah

Your posts just get more inane and nonsensical by the day.Why are you calling a WAR an "avoidance tank" anyway? To be an avoidance tank you have to have some level of higher avoidance. Every parse I've seen has a PLD with more dodges, and the only way you can even say that WAR has more "avoidance" than a PLD is because they have Featherfoot which is a 15 second 15% evasion cooldown. If you think that makes the WAR an avoidance tank you need to go back to MMO school or something.

Second, LOL@ WAR putting out 250 DPS in defiance. I mean, you are welcome to join us back in reality whenever you want. a WAR pulling 250 DPS in defiance would pull ~320-330 DPS outside of defiance, and yeah, that would put them as a contender for top DPS, even over pretty much any DPS job. Even then, you will never see a tank able to "pick up a boss" if necessary doing remotely close to that much damage. Even if it were possible it would only be possible with full Darklight or Better DPS accessories, and that would leave you at about a 800-1000 HP deficit.

And finally, WAR is not successfully MTing up to turn 5 "and beyond". They are OTing up to turn 4 and then switching jobs to a non-tank for Turn 5.

SE will change their stance once tanks in COIL are 95% PLD and 5% WAR, and the PLD running groups are on average 2 turns ahead of the ones running WAR. There was already a huge imbalance in the number of PLD:WAR. This is only going to put more WAR on the back burner.

[oceanlord]

snip.

hachiko, you really need to stop replying his post,
he doesnt play any warrior, he just acting like he know warrior...

that big signature and your bull shit post make me feel sorry for your FC/epoch gaming... having a smartass leader how does it feel

[Taemek]

Your posts just get more inane and nonsensical by the day.Why are you calling a WAR an "avoidance tank" anyway? To be an avoidance tank you have to have some level of higher avoidance. Every parse I've seen has a PLD with more dodges, and the only way you can even say that WAR has more "avoidance" than a PLD is because they have Featherfoot which is a 15 second 15% evasion cooldown. If you think that makes the WAR an avoidance tank you need to go back to MMO school or something.

Second, LOL@ WAR putting out 250 DPS in defiance. I mean, you are welcome to join us back in reality whenever you want. a WAR pulling 250 DPS in defiance would pull ~320-330 DPS outside of defiance, and yeah, that would put them as a contender for top DPS, even over pretty much any DPS job. Even then, you will never see a tank able to "pick up a boss" if necessary doing remotely close to that much damage. Even if it were possible it would only be possible with full Darklight or Better DPS accessories, and that would leave you at about a 800-1000 HP deficit.

And finally, WAR is not successfully MTing up to turn 5 "and beyond". They are OTing up to turn 4 and then switching jobs to a non-tank for Turn 5.

SE will change their stance once tanks in COIL are 95% PLD and 5% WAR, and the PLD running groups are on average 2 turns ahead of the ones running WAR. There was already a huge imbalance in the number of PLD:WAR. This is only going to put more WAR on the back burner.

We are an avoidance based tank because we have no ability to block and block is king. Now until people show us apple to apple real word parses of a Warrior and Paladin in the same ilvl gear in the same sceanrios, no one is going to believe anyones hyperthectical based assumptions and theroy crafting math.

I've seen some parses of Warriors doing upwards of 190 - 210 dps in Defiance stance, why is this surprising for you? I've seen Paladins doing 150 - 170 dps also, I don't see the issue here that you are refering too.

Knee jerk posts are never a good thing, helps to read, although I know alot of people seem to have trouble fully grasping logical posts that don't have numbers to crunch.

Are you refering to the minority of player base that is actually even doing Coil that has sat Warriors on the back burner as you so kindly put it? Hmmmm yes, I agree, SE is clearly going to listen to less then 1% of thier player base..../rollseyes and on that note, you still haven't proven that Warriors are completely incapable of doing it, as many others have and keep doing almost daily.

As I said before, the company you keep ingame is your own choice and if they feel you aren't cutting the mustard or willing to help devise new plans of attack, then maybe you are with the wrong people OR maybe you would like to revisit your own ability to play a Warrior? Just stating the obvious.

[Phreak]

...avoidance based tank because we have no ability to block...

Parry isn't avoidance in this game, it's mitigation. Featherfoot does not an evasion tank make.

block is king

Wrong game, block is no different than parry at it's core, they both reduce damage by +/- 25% when an attack is blocked/parried.

...parses of Warriors doing upwards of 190 - 210 dps...Paladins doing 150 - 170 dps

Hooray for random numbers with nothing behind them.

...minority of player base that is actually even doing Coil...less then 1% of thier player base...

More random, heavily opinionated, numbers.

[RapBreon]

no one is going to believe anyones hyperthectical based assumptions and theroy crafting math.

Not hyperthectical assumption based numbers, some realtime, real world parses.

I think it is safe to say that all the hyperthectical maths can stop

I've bitten my tongue for ages with this guy, but I have to say something;



I was willing to believe it was a pun using the word hyper to illustrate the exaggerated QQ, but somehow, I doubt it.

Also, take off that infernal monocle (you've been wearing it forever) you pretentious poop-wrangler. It doesn't make you look smart and I know that's what you think combined with that guild name.


Boy I feel better, thanks for listening to me vent!