Good Vs Bad Player

[Blaetansa]

Doing your 'homework', as you put it, is only for the HxC gamer, and even then should only be done AFTER lvl cap and running through everything. Because by then you've had your excitement of the game and just striving to be the best. I enjoy not knowing what happens*I will ask people who have run the dungeons before me to point out the attacks and mobs, but only because I'm a GOOD tank who plays with the party I'm in.

[ogopogo]

I have seen over my years of playing MMO's people talk about bad and good players.
I have been given many different reasons why players are bad and why players are good.

The one thing that does bite my ankles is how people seem to expect other people to do homework on their choice of class/job/Weps/Armor etc. Homework could be asking to be told what is going to happen just as they enter a dungeon, reading guides or watching videos of fights.

Since when does doing homework = learning the fight before hand? You're already making assumption that's based entirely on your opinion. Let me ask a question in return then. How do you determine a good adventurer? One who learns how to use his chosen weapon properly, who frequently maintain his gears and learns as much about both the location and monsters he'll encounter going into a forboding dungeon as he can? Or someone who can barely pull the string on his bow, who wears rusted and worn out gear into battle and who charges into a room filled with monsters and traps ignoring the warning of his party members?

I never ever minded someone who's new to an encounter. However, I will always tell people who don't know how to play their class that they don't know how to play their class. If that makes me an elitist bastard, then so be it.

[Sixmp]

Since when does doing homework = learning the fight before hand? You're already making assumption that's based entirely on your opinion. Let me ask a question in return then. How do you determine a good adventurer? One who learns how to use his chosen weapon properly, who frequently maintain his gears and learns as much about both the location and monsters he'll encounter going into a forboding dungeon as he can? Or someone who can barely pull the string on his bow, who wears rusted and worn out gear into battle and who charges into a room filled with monsters and traps ignoring the warning of his party members?

I never ever minded someone who's new to an encounter. However, I will always tell people who don't know how to play their class that they don't know how to play their class. If that makes me an elitist bastard, then so be it.

Its common knowledge that certain people expect other people to know things in game that they could never know about unless they read a guide or already completed it themselves.
Anyone can learn to improve their character play on the road, or at an inn or from some stranger etc, there is nothing wrong with expecting people to have the best gear that they know about,but you cannot expect them to know about things they have never been to or seen, knowing in advance the workings of a trap ridden castle that nobody has ever entered before, or the exact pattern of a one of a kind mob, how is that possible?

As for my idea of a bad player, it is very hard to gauge, having bad gear doesn't make someone a bad player, you could argue that the person who has got as far as you have with bad gear could be a better player.
Once everyone is in the best gear with the best weapons a parser will tell some people who is the best players are, unfortunately those numbers don't mean much.

People who go in blind are at a larger disadvantage than someone who has read guides, yet they can still win by reacting to what is happening around them, learning tactics on the fly or during a break after a wipe. Wouldn't that be the better player?
Personally i don't really care about the best, i prefer nice people. If they happen to be good at the game cool, if they are bad, cool.

I always giggle when people i know have learned a fight inside out from guides and youtube after completing it first try then boast to me about how easy it was.
To me it is just like someone getting the answers to the Times crossword filling in all the answers and then telling everyone how easy it was.

[sasakusaku]

In my experience over 30 years of MMOing...bad players can be good players with a little help, guidance, and patience. However, no one wants to go through the effort. Most 'good' players find a guide on a site or watch vids off of youtube and learn off of other players who already did the content anyways. It's not like most actually figured it out themselves...

Ah the good old days before 'parsers' showed up which is now the go to yard stick to judge people. We are not human, we are simple a number on list and if you don't make the grade: yer a baddie! Doesn't matter if you are a good person in personality, no that matters not at all. Oh tight nit friendly game communities and pleasant social interaction with others....how I miss thee. /extinct

[Rochetm]

30 years of MMOingt

lolWUT?

I don't watch videos and never have problems. Yet people who "know" the fights fail over and over. Sorry but "doing your homework" is actually "copying other peoples work" and in no way makes you any better.

These games are not designed so that only min/max players can complete them. If you really need better than AF gear for AK then you suck. Same goes for Ifrit... Darklight requirement for ifrit cracks me up.

[Brutallyn]

to some extend for the adventure, But, the dungeons-trials in ff14 are time limited.

the other day i did Gaurda normal with a pug. 2 of the 4 had no clue what the fight would be like. it took a good 40 minutes for them to actually catch up on the mechanics, and in the end we won with 10 mins to spare. so it took us 80 mins, and 10plus wipes.
that's not an adventure anymore imo.

Brut

[Cluebilly]

30 years of MMOing...

This statement made me laugh really really hard.

[Yves_Gomes]

Yeah. I do ask about any tricks before going into a boss, but watching a guide would be a straight up spoiler - too boring.

[PsychologyPhD]

This game uses a "Job" system. So your character is one of the jobs implemented in the system. Like any job you have to know what you are doing, even if it is your first time/day, you are expected have some knowledge of what your job details. There are people who are good at their job and people who are bad at their job. Knowing the optimal rotation, priority, or mechanics of your job in any situation is what makes a person great at their job. On a side note doing research is never a bad thing! Research is what makes the world go round and the only thing putting money in my pocket !

[Rivienne]

The problem here is that you have a few completely different types of players:

1) video games are for fun, adventure, and solving problems. No matter how many times you fail along the way.
2) video games are a sport, and sports are about efficiency and winning, and having the minimum number of mistakes and failure along the way.

A small subset of the latter camp seems unwilling to accept that there is another camp at all. There are good players, and bad players. And good players play like them, as a sport, for efficient, perfect, wins. Bad players are anyone else. If you aren't playing like them, you are doing it wrong. Period. If you can't learn as fast as them, you are bad. If you didn't research, you are bad. If you want to explore/have an adventure/care about the story, you are bad. If you do anything that isn't the way they want to play, you are inconsiderate of their play time.

Problem is, the sports mentality is fine in this game if you keep it to the others who are of the same mindset. But by using the DF they are intentionally putting themselves with group 1 over and over again making them very visible to the overall community. Most sports minded groups who are doing it "right" so to speak, are in their own team running towards coil, if they aren't already there, minding their own business.

But there is this subset of the sports minded folks, and they are pushing themselves onto the former group via DF and then claiming the other are simply bad, wrong etc. and should get out of their game if they can't be bothered to do it "right".

I don't believe it is actually as prevalent as it looks right now, rather if you have 3000 of these players at a time, out of 300K total players, but they currently are constantly running end game duty finder, it will appear to everyone else that they are the norm. In reality, most players aren't at 50 yet (or are just getting there now), and most players who are at 50 are happily minding their own business.

Anyway this is just my current take on the subject.