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[Ryougi]

Do I have to like his idea however? I don't like it.
I like a post pointing out a difference but scaling heals on damage doesn't compute to me. Why go that route? Also why do White mages not have this issue. There heals don't scale based on enemy damage, they're based on their stats with more value based on the effective healing a Tank has on them.

It's a scaling thing.

An attack does 1000 damage.

A paladin soaks 50% of it (BS numbers, but just adding the 20% from shield oath and assuming both have equal mitigation otherwise)

Takes 500 damage.

A warriors soaks 30% of it.

Takes 700 damage.

The warrior can heal that 700 with IB (Again bs numbers.), the paladin is just cured in one shot. They're equal.

Now increase that.

Attack does 10000 damage

Paladin soaks 50% -- 5000 damage to be healed.

WArrior soaks 30 -- 7000 to be healed -- minus the 700 from IB -- which didn't go up because the fight got harder. WHM has to heal 6300 -- 13% more.

This is the issue, warriors mitigation is supposed to be damage soaked + what they heal -- but the heals don't go up as the difficulty of the fight does, so their effective mitigation -decreases- as the fights get harder.

Meanwhile paladins mitigation is just straight "soak as much as possible" -- which actively scales with incoming damage.

BY ripping the blood dk effect -- % of damage taken, lets say, 20% of the damage taken in the past 5 seconds is added to IB.

Same attack

PAladin still takes 5000.

Warrior takes 7000, heals 2100 (700 from IB, + 20% of 7000 or 1400.) now they've "Effectively taken" 4900, which means the WHM has to heal 4900, putting them on par with the paladin, while making their mitgation still thematic and reactive via heals as they're designed to be.

Warriors aren't gimped because they take more damage, they're gimped because the tools they're given to make up the extra damage they take, don't scale up with the amount of damage they're taking, while the paladins straight mitigation, does.

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Finally, to answer your question, WHMS don't have this issue, because it's the interplay between the roles. Tanks gain more mitigation/hp with gear, meaning they take less damage, which allows healing to scale smoothly. But since warrior healing IS their mitigation, and it doesn't scale as fast as damage does, there is a big gap between the healing needed for a paladin adn the healing needed for a warrior, leaving a lot of WHM's trying to cover the gap their gear doesn't let them

[Zonerstone]

bump bump bump

[wonka11]

I haven't done coil yet, but I absolutely have had no problem tanking and killing HM Titan.

I feel like a lot of the complaints are from inexperienced healers, under geared tanks, or a combination of the two.

Additionally, you don't really stress your healers out in this fight like people believe. Everyone tries to calculate math into it, but frankly, not only are heals more effective on you when casted, your health pool allows much less over healing (and thus less agro as every point of HP over healed is one point of agro on the healer).

Paladins simply can't boast this. I run with my FC of Real life friends and we run both a Pally and Warrior for the fight. They regard the opinion as misinformed inadequacies that are sketchy in theory and fail in practicality and I'm inclined to believe them. Especially when most of these calculations are done with an entire ilevel of gear missing, based on presumptions and flawed ideas on how stats actually work (we havent figured it out yet), and thus rely on conclusions that are missing important details or aspects that we as players are not even aware about.

Again, I haven't tanked coil, so I don't know about that. Yet, as far as tanking HM titan, we have absolutely no problems nor do good healers.

[Sakasa]

I haven't done coil yet, but I absolutely have had no problem tanking and killing HM Titan.

I feel like a lot of the complaints are from inexperienced healers, under geared tanks, or a combination of the two.

Additionally, you don't really stress your healers out in this fight like people believe. Everyone tries to calculate math into it, but frankly, not only are heals more effective on you when casted, your health pool allows much less over healing (and thus less agro as every point of HP over healed is one point of agro on the healer).

Paladins simply can't boast this. I run with my FC of Real life friends and we run both a Pally and Warrior for the fight. They regard the opinion as misinformed inadequacies that are sketchy in theory and fail in practicality and I'm inclined to believe them. Especially when most of these calculations are done with an entire ilevel of gear missing, based on presumptions and flawed ideas on how stats actually work (we havent figured it out yet), and thus rely on conclusions that are missing important details or aspects that we as players are not even aware about.

Again, I haven't tanked coil, so I don't know about that. Yet, as far as tanking HM titan, we have absolutely no problems nor do good healers.

But if you get the i80 gear supposedly from Crystal tower you will not have a problem doing coil either. The issue is pld when all is optimal has better overall defenses. People tend to blow it out of proportion when saying WAR is useless. The fact that pld skills scale only becomes an issue when the instance out levels the gear ratio. So it would become harder on the whm. So people gravite towards the easier to be more "efficient" and that boils down to "Level PLD NOOB" as so well demonstrated in this very thread.

[wonka11]

Well there ya go then, Paladin is simply overpowered and warrior is fine. My advice to other warriors is that they should probably be happy with the situation. We are in no position to be nerfed and are designed to be exactly at par with the game.
Paladin will most likely see a nerf due to its capability to tank 1-2 fights beyond the gear iLevel gap. For the players crying "Paladins can tank stuff that we're not supposed to tank currently, so I should be able to as well!" seems stupid to me, and flawed logically on premise when taking into account the state of the game.

[Tronic]

I run with my FC of Real life friends and we run both a Pally and Warrior for the fight. They regard the opinion as misinformed inadequacies that are sketchy in theory and fail in practicality and I'm inclined to believe them.

Caduceus would like to have a word with your FC buddies. I saw him wielding one of these:

http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictur...cts/390547.jpg