Why Monks need a Buff + Petition!

[ChaozK]

im going to hate playing monk on a boss like demon wall... i hope there is no such boss anymore
and i hate oversized boss... although its awesome but it will make monk positioning bit harder

You cant get Rear attacks at all on demon wall, however you can still get flanks. MNKs can still get around 90% of their dps from flank alone. You mainly lose the crit/extra potency from rear Bootshine and True strike but the rest is still intact. With Dragoon however you lose your best Debuff (Disembovel) and your best DoT (Chaos Thrust), so he gets actually hit harder in terms of dps.

[Rapiso]

@rapiso: yeah just did check, fist of fire is only 5% now. (was 10% in p3-4)

- why i didn't put auto attack? we don't control auto attack, i'm doing a comparaison between a basic rotation of 3 skill.

- why true strike? for the raptor stance, true strike is the most powerfull skill in term of potency twin snake = 140 at best. we can argue too about why dragon kick and not bootshine that auto critical in the back when in opo opo stance, one more time because dragon kick = 150, bootshine = 130.

- i do have both class at 50, my monk is in amdapor and my dragoon in DL.
actually my monk go to 2.04 in gcd under self buff (1.93 with selene in the group) i think high stuffed monk can confirm that we get close of 1.9 in better stuff. dragoon don't have a lot speed attack on them stuff.
- why 2 more strike, when the difference is 4.5 sec? 4.5/1.9 = 2.3684 skill, i'm not sure i can found a 0.3684 skill somewhere.

- can't understand my point on the critical? here some fact i have tested my self, with full self buff and cooldown (blood for blood include for both) my monk hit for 570 with him best strike, my dragoon hit for 870 and we are talking of critical. actually in group both have a difference of 25 in str and 1 in base damage (ifrit didn't have give me my claw yet); i doubt it can make up for this sort of differnce. true blood for blood give more boost for the dragoon (+10% actually)
my point is, as we all know, the dragoon hit slower than the monk, but hit harder, then he get more damage from the critical, because it's a flat boost of 50% of damage.
- on fight like ifrit? no impossible the loose of GL and twin snake is killing our dps drastically. that a fact, monk are only good when they don't loose GL/twin snake.
- is not subjective to say that the game mechanic is hurting the monk the most! or you want to turn blind eyes about what every monk say on the loose of GL, directly link to the game mechanic of many... most fight in the game.

why i haven't used a longer rotation? why i haven't included the out gcd skill? 2 reason:
- about the out gcd skill, the dragoon have more skill at use out gcd
- a mon complex rotation will have become more complex to show in math. like the damage done while the builder and how much time you spend for get it. here it's a simple comparaison between a basic rotation that can be used as main basic cycle for get the best damage of both. indeed the rotation is more complexe. we can talk of the timer of twin snake or heavy thrust.


by the way, you did miss my conclusion saying that the monk don't need a boost, but a change in it mechanic for be less... punishing.
we can increase the duration of GL but it will not change the fact, that you will need a full rotation of 9 skill for get to full trottle.
the main trouble about monk damage are based on the damage boost in GL and the fact that most of the skill ask to be on side or back for get the full power of it.


If they change this, take out the damag boost from GL and position of the skill, they will be able to focus more on the combo system and who know give to the monk tool for be more team friendly (outside mantra)

You didn't understand my post right ?

I will be easier : Don't try to theorycraft when you can't, you're just giving false informations to people.

I'll repeat :
- Don't try to compare the dps of 2 class with taking absolutly nothing into consideration.
- If you don't use Twin snakes in your calculations, don't use his buff too.
- You've to normalize skill potency with crit. (eg:Boottshine)
- Skillspeed isn't a good stat to max, I don't think 1.9s GCD is reachable if you want your acc cap. But this is not the point, the main issue is that your TC has absolutly no sense, and i hope you'll not foul people.
- "0.3684s skill" ... Do a fucking average idiot ! Read my post the next time.
- So you're that kind of people who think that the biggest crit you can make, the more dps you have ... Man ... I just can't argue with a monkey ...
- Mnk are very good when they can keep their buffs, they are OK on primals.

I stop here, I can't explain you how the whole world works.

[silentwindfr]

you are the one that don't understand, you try to justify you own reasoning by insulting me.
what i did was taking in account optimal condition for the monk, meaning without taking in account the rotation needed for keep the buff. i'm not there for tell this situation or this situation. we try to get a base for understand the potential of a class.
i can make a more accurate calcul by using the whole rotation of each class on 90 second if you want, that not the point.

some point i will try to make clear here for show how much you are focus on a small part of the monk dps.
- you talk of ACC here it's important when you reach bahamut coil that normally must be done with Crystal tower equipement, we don't know how much acc/skillspeed we will get from it.
we don't make this for bahamut coil only but for any situation.
- other point is perfectly possible to keep 1.9 with a scholar in the group for 30 sec.
- if Dragon kick critical the damage input will be better, when you do a basic comparaison with optimal situation you don't use the critical in account, because is not possible to know if you will or not critical on this or this skill.
- about the critical, i'm simply asthonished... you didn't read me, i have simply said this: Dragon hit slower, but per hit the damage is far stronger. since the critical bonus is a flat +50% it's means he will get a better dps from the critical than the monk. i will try to make it simplier for you understand the point:
- the monk will land 11 hit of 10 damage all critical on a time of 20 second, 10+50% = 15 x 11 = 165/20 = 8.25 dps
- the dragoon will land 9 hit of 15 damage all critical on the same 20 second, 15+50% = 22.5 x 9 = 202.5/20 = 10.125 dps
i hope this time it's more clear for you. indeed in normal condition is not possible to get that much critical in row, and more important the difference of damage per hit between dragoon and monk are more than 5 damage *grins*

why compare with soo little thing in consideration? because add more variable will increase the lenght of the thread to even break the limit with edit. why compare dragoon and monk? because they are close enough for be used as comparaison between each, the other dps (ranged) don't have the same restriction as position, avoid melee attack of the boss or combo.
indeed both class have a focus different as dps, however, we can't know where is the dps of the monk if we don't do comparaison.

finally, we lack too much data from the game, for begin to say with absolut, our dps is right or not right. we will need tons of time to check data ACCURATE, not from the parseer. it's well know that the DoT are... inaccuratly boosted in the data and is important to point it Demolish is as strong than Bio 2.


oh and more important, mister i don't read until the end, the math i have done, show that monk dps can be fairly good in optimal condition, actually better than the dragoon, i'm not for a boost of the Monk. will be nice to understand this. but the point of this... is only in optimal condition. and is fairly well know that the..."optimal" condition are extremely hard to maintain for a long time!

ps mister world best monk, if you are not ok with my explanation feel free to give true constructive argument with math into it... simply insulting and saying you know more than the other is not constructive and don't make your point valid.
we don't talk of the monk only in Bahamut Coil, but in every aspect of the game, is called balance. thanks to take this in consideration.

[savant07]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDqzSBUhKY

All people whining about monk can STFU now.

[ElHeggunte]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDqzSBUhKY

All people whining about monk can STFU now.

Wearing some of the best gear available and wailing on an immobile dummy that doesn't fight back doesn't really mean much. How many end-game fights are there were a Monk can just sit on the target without worry and achieve that sort of DPS? Our DPS is indeed in a good place, but that doesn't mean we don't need a few QoL improvements to make it more consistent.

[Vejj]

Wearing some of the best gear available and wailing on an immobile dummy that doesn't fight back doesn't really mean much. How many end-game fights are there were a Monk can just sit on the target without worry and achieve that sort of DPS? Our DPS is indeed in a good place, but that doesn't mean we don't need a few QoL improvements to make it more consistent.

Finally one who's understand.

[himehime]

Wearing some of the best gear available and wailing on an immobile dummy that doesn't fight back doesn't really mean much. How many end-game fights are there were a Monk can just sit on the target without worry and achieve that sort of DPS? Our DPS is indeed in a good place, but that doesn't mean we don't need a few QoL improvements to make it more consistent.

AK, turn 1, turn 2 until you get allagan rot (tbh you can still dps with it, just have to be very careful or have tanks have immunity), turn 4

theres your endgame monk stationary target dps. ifrit garuda and titan do have the annoying invuln phases, but everything else (aka the stuff that matters) monk does fine in, with 100% GL3 uptime

[savant07]

AK, turn 1, turn 2 until you get allagan rot (tbh you can still dps with it, just have to be very careful or have tanks have immunity), turn 4

theres your endgame monk stationary target dps. ifrit garuda and titan do have the annoying invuln phases, but everything else (aka the stuff that matters) monk does fine in, with 100% GL3 uptime

Pretty much.

Honestly you keep asking for QoL changes but that just means "BUFF MONKS" to the point where they can keep 100% uptime one everything which then means a DPS buff which also means that you will be even higher in DPS than you already are.

[Kiokin]

The two posters above me are Bards. Go figure.

[Garnatian]

I don't think someone playing the easiest class in the game has any right to talk about difficulty. I am looking at you, BRDs.