'allo there dps, fine day we're having. Question for ya!

[Marael]

You realize that the overwhelmingly vast majority of tanks in this game don't have the first clue as to how to mark targets, therefore very few dps have ever had any experience with it. They're used to tanks being able to hold a whole group of mobs while they whittle them down. So, are you complaining that you don't know how to keep more than one mob at a time on you, or that no one knows what target marking is? Even tanks that don't know how to mark targets can usually keep a whole group of mobs occupied. So, like, why can't you?

[Vagrant-0]

You realize that the overwhelmingly vast majority of tanks in this game don't have the first clue as to how to mark targets

Everyone can mark targets. Sure, it may not be as organized since you would have to know what target the tank is going for, but this can be done easily with a simple macro.

/mk circle <tt>
/p Tank's target is marked with circle, please focus your damage there
/assist <t>

or for healers

/mk circle <tt>
/p Tank's target is marked with circle, please focus your damage there
/ac "cure" <t>

Just click with the tank selected after the initial round of flash/overpower. Super simple. Can even add one of your abilities at the end of the macro to attack the target right away. Nobody has an excuse, just make sure that only one person is marking things.

[Steeled]

Everyone can mark targets. Sure, it may not be as organized since you would have to know what target the tank is going for, but this can be done easily with a simple macro.

Preferably, only the tank should be marking targets. It's just part of the role. Mark targets.

Like I mentioned above, some tanks frequently switch back and forth between targets. If one is marked as "1" then I know that's the mob that should die first and if the tank switches to another one temporarily I know that he'll eventually go back to "1".

This. I occasionally run into dps that switch targets as I move on to the next (when <1> is almost dead, I mark a new target with <1>), and I politely explain to them to stick with the almost dead target, I'm just marking ahead of time for them so that they know what to attack next.

There's no need to make the time to mark <2,3,4>, especially sometimes because pulls change. If someone agros something more dangerous, I'm switching. You can continue to kill <1> if you like but my next target may not have been what I would have initially marked <2>

[glen7187]

Preferably, only the tank should be marking targets. It's just part of the role. Mark targets.

I mark as a tank but when I perform the other roles, I see sometimes DPS marking or when I'm THM I will mark my sleep target. My only suggestion for people is that if the tank is marking then let him mark. If he isn't marking then I don't see anything wrong with marking yourself. In one group I had, I was marking my sleep targets but sometimes it clashed with the tanks plan, so later in the dungeon he began marking the sleep targets so I just let him do that and followed the marks.

[Feidam]

I love when a tank actually marks the target. I love it the tank more when they bother to tank the other two adds with it as well. So many tanks just like dps are used to having it easy in other games. It's really easy to pass the blame. My thoughts are to politely try and educate folks first if that fails and nothing improves I go about my merry way. However, I have noticed in the duty finder most people only have tantrums screaming noob and fail at others. Which is counter productive if you are trying to have a successful run.

[Tenkiei]

While some dps don't really do their job, it does work both ways, usually I try to attack whatever target the tank is attacking however there are a few exceptions to that rule, namely:

- If one enemy is a healer, or vastly more dangerous/annoying than the others (succubus for example), I will focus that mob down, if the tank is attacking something else I usually will pull it, because my single target burst is greater than their AoE.


- If an enemy is being on the healer, I will attack/burst it, because from my experience it's far easier for a healer to heal me, than it is for them to heal themselves while tanking, yes I am aware it's more healing than the mob being on the tank, but 99% of the time the tank is too clueless to notice and pull it back anyway.

- If I am multi-dotting, yes as a brd you multi-dot Venom Bite and Wind Bite are ~300 potency attacks, and give bloodletter resets, so I try to run my DoTs on as many targets as possible whenever I'm not AoEing or burning a single target, sometimes this pulls because around 2 auto-attacks are released.

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That said, my main pet peeve with a LOT of tanks, is they have a habit, of opening on 1 target (not marking anything mind you), then randomly switching sometime after they've hit it 1-2 times, this more or less means I get to tank the trash mob for the remainder of it's life. I agree dps attacking the wrong target when things are marked is annoying, but as a dps I have to say I find a good tank maybe... 1 in 10 runs, so for the most part I've given up, and assume the tanks won't be able to hold threat on me and I should just be prepared self-tank things.

From my experience there is too much of an emphasis placed on "watching threat" on trash mobs, when I have my cooldowns up, trash mobs really don't have the life for the tank to get solid threat, yes I COULD in theory delay attacking for 10+ seconds, but what's the point of that when by then the mob would be at around half hp?

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On the other hand, I hope threat is adjusted at some-point though because it can be very difficult for overgeared healers, to heal undergeared tanks without pulling, If the tank is undergeared they're likely taking excessive damage, if the healer is overgeared they generate a lot of threat, a single cure II might crit for 3000+ (and unless you KNOW your next attack is going to be a crit you may overheal some). This is the one major flaw I see in the threat system currently because.. I've noticed most tanks who lose threat consistently to healers are also unable to pull off the healers (who are now heal bombing themselves to not die).

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Slightly off topic here and there but those are my general thoughts/opinions/rants/agreements/disagreements on threat/etc.

[pandabearcat]

As a SMN, if you're not Baneing targets you're doing something wrong.

That said, tanks need to work really hard to hold AoE threat vs a SMN, because they do 100% single target dps while keeping up ~70% dps to all targets during the same time. There is no choice to aoe vs choice to single target, you aoe while you single target because you only spend one offGCD skill to do so.

So please tab target and attack if you've got a SMN and you want the run to go quicker.

[ChickensEvil]

Well, I mean, for me, it tends to be tank runs in hits them once, I start casting Blizzard 3, 3 seconds later, the tank has or should have flashed/hit all the mobs/whatever so I cast my AOE sleep. Then noone has to worry about any of the other mobs because they aren't doing anything.

But then, I always get amused when a healer thinks it is a cool idea to break all my sleep targets so he can put some weak dot on them... like he is somehow "helping"... when he would be able to better contribute by just sticking to single target since it means less healing he has to do on the tank, so more time spent doing DPS.

I very rarely run with BRD and SMN as the other DPS, so ideally the mobs should be slept when possible since it makes the run so much faster. If If get a BRD or SMN, then I would prolly just AOE spam them down myself.

[pandabearcat]

I very rarely run with BRD and SMN as the other DPS, so ideally the mobs should be slept when possible since it makes the run so much faster. If If get a BRD or SMN, then I would prolly just AOE spam them down myself.

Summoner DoTs (bane'd DoTs, that is) and shadowflare don't break sleep.

Which means sleep is actually amazing for summoners, as they can do near full (you lose out on thunder) AoE dps while the targets are asleep, and won't worry about ripping aggro.

When one target is down, the tank can provoke the sleeping target and won't need to worry.

Bards cannot sustain AoE, and their flaming arrow also does not break sleep.

[ChickensEvil]

Summoner DoTs (bane'd DoTs, that is) and shadowflare don't break sleep.

Bards cannot sustain AoE, and their flaming arrow also does not break sleep.

Well, that solves that one, I thought only DoTs that were already on the target counted, but I guess bane'ing a DoT would be basically the same thing. Meh, the few times I have run with summoners has been in 8 man content (where nothing gets slept anyway) and the SMN I have run with always make me sad.

Hey to all your SMN out there, two important things about playing your class... if you are in a group it is on you FIRST to rez people who die, stop making the healers 1: stop healing to rez someone, and 2: burn through all their mana to rez someone. Second, stop puting your pet on auto... seriously, the AI is stupid and will not manage your abilities correctly, to maximize your DPS you need to be telling your pet what to do.

Sorry for the side track, those two things just really kill me, Pandabearcat you should have a little chat with your fellow SMN about this haha! Most people don't like being told by someone who doesn't play their class how to play their class, so maybe it will sound better coming from you

Anyway, the only SMN I ever run with ends up going SCH in most 4 man content because even though he is down 30 points on his main stat he heals better than most other SCH I ever run with. When he is on his SMN he is amazing though!