XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

[Surfie]

Thanks for that, your math however, fails to take overall parry rate and crit rate into account. You ignore them, but the truth is, over a long period of time, the "random" nature of them becomes a reliable percentage.


an average rough parry rate mitigation of 15% total incoming damage from spells and attack damage due to parry rate over time, (you can calculate pld parry and block against this if you would like)

Thank you. I hope you are surprised by your findings. I was.

First of all, you don't even know how parry works. It is a 15% chance to mitigate 23% of incoming damage, not a 15% chance to mitigate 100% damage.

Shield Block is superior to Parry. But here's the kicker, Paladins can parry too so your entire argument is crap.

[Kitru]

UP TO, 25% damage reduced with 405 STR from parry.
Parry procs roughly 17-25% of the time depending on how much Parry+ gear and dex you have. 211 dex seems to be the good number.

THAT WORKS OUT TO... AN AVERAGE OF 15% OF ALL DAMAGE - OVER A LONG TIME - REDUCED. *sigh*

How badly do you suck at math that you think that .25 * .25 = 15% instead of the 6.25% that it actually does.

Also, I'm reasonably confident that you can't parry magic so it's nowhere *near* "all damage".

I'm also curious where exactly you get the "WAR gets bigger Parry+" from. PLD and WAR use the same gear. They have exactly the same base Parry (I just checked in game). Unless WAR magically gets more out of the same quantity of Parry (which is indicated absolutely nowhere), WAR and PLD have the exact same Parry.

[Maelwys]

I'm also curious where exactly you get the "WAR gets bigger Parry+" from. PLD and WAR use the same gear. They have exactly the same base Parry (I just checked in game). Unless WAR magically gets more out of the same quantity of Parry (which is indicated absolutely nowhere), WAR and PLD have the exact same Parry.

I'd assume that along with the "WAR gets more Str, Str increases mitigation from Parry" argument, the fact that you can't trigger both Block and Parry on the same hit might come into play.

If memory serves, when your character gets hit, the check goes in order of: Dodge, then Block, then Parry.

If both a WAR and a PLD have an identical Parry stat, then we can expect that the PLD will actually Parry attacks very slightly less often than the WAR... because some of the hits the PLD receives will trigger a Block before the Parry has a chance to occur. The WAR can never block, so they get the "full" effect of all possible parries.

Miniscule and Ignorable? Perhaps. But there is a slight difference...

[Edit: Silly Daily Posting Limits...]

Except that you're making the assumption that Parry is more valuable than Block. Since Block is more valuable than Parry (you mitigate 1-2% more with identical stats; yes, I've tested this out on my character using *the exact same gear), the argument that WAR Parries more often because they don't have Block decreasing their chance to Parry (which, once again, Block is just what a Parry with a Shield is called so that's not even true) doesn't equate to an advantage of any kind.

At best, it's a semantic point that completely misses the actual intent of what's being discussed. At worst, it's demonstrative of a complete and utter inability to actually understand what's going on.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing with the OP's take that Parry is more valuable than Block. I'm just saying that if the OP is trying to lay out a complete breakdown of what mitigation PLD has available compared to what mitigation WAR has available, then nobody can make the claim that "they both have identical parry stats". Either we take "Parry" and "Block" to mean different things - so a PLD has slightly less chance to Parry but a large chance to Block, or we take them to mean the same thing - so a PLD has a *much* higher chance.

In a sense it really doesn't matter what we call it because it's going to result in the same level of mitigation for the PLD, but it does make the semantics of directly comparing what the two classes bring to the table a little trickier.

We can certainly take both Block and Parry as being the same thing if we boil it down to "amount of incoming damage mitigated passively". And I'm aware that the amount of damage mitigated by both scales with STR, but IIRC there are different chances to cause a shield block depending on the Shield that is equipped, whereas the chance to parry an attack with a weapon will remain the same regardless of the Shield type. That suggests to me that if we were to combine Block and Parry and take them as exactly the same thing for a PLD, we'd still need to separate it out again later on, because only part of our calculations will depend on what portion of that mitigation is influenced by the equipped Shield's Block Value.

I agree that to some extent it is a semantic point, and certainly that in practical terms PLD's (Block + Parry) will always beat WAR's (Parry)

Please don't think of my comments above as arguing with you. Instead picture me sitting in the audience with a bucket of popcorn, throwing out the odd heckle just to keep things interesting...
(I usually always end up rooting for the underdog, but I just cant see any way possible for WAR to win this one...)

[Kitru]

Miniscule and Ignorable? Perhaps. But there is a slight difference...

Except that you're making the assumption that Parry is more valuable than Block. Since Block is more valuable than Parry (you mitigate 1-2% more with identical stats; yes, I've tested this out on my character using *the exact same gear), the argument that WAR Parries more often because they don't have Block decreasing their chance to Parry (which, once again, Block is just what a Parry with a Shield is called so that's not even true) doesn't equate to an advantage of any kind.

At best, it's a semantic point that completely misses the actual intent of what's being discussed. At worst, it's demonstrative of a complete and utter inability to actually understand what's going on.

[Englesyn]

If memory serves, when your character gets hit, the check goes in order of: Dodge, then Block, then Parry.

PLD can dodge, block and parry, WAR can only dodge and Parry...

Seeing that paladins and warriors have the same base dodge and parry. This means Paladins get to roll a 'dice' three times to mitigate damage, vs. warriors two times.

Hope this clears anyone's thought about the matter. Some people still think that because warrior parries a few times more makes them seem like they have better parry. No, that's not the case. It's because the paladin that gets a successful block doesn't get a chance to roll for a parry.

[PiedPiper]

Also, if you shield block, you do NOT proc the chance to parry. If you unequipped a shield, you parry more, because first game checks for:

Chance to block: Yes/No Yes? Block. Parry does not happen.

Chance to block: Yes/No No? => Chance to Parry yes/no? No? => Chance to dodge yes/no? no? => Chance for mob crit you? Yes/no ?
Those things happen in that order. IF any of those things go off first, NONE OF THE THINGS UNDER HAPPEN.

So no shield, first thing that happens, is chance to parry. War gets big Parry+. Think about it.

By a huge margin, this is my favorite post in this thread. His own explanation shows why he's wrong. its teh best.

Ps, Lhum: Holy Shiled +1 wearing just full darklight (no piotns in dex or str accessories or anything of the kidn) blocks 26% when it procs. Trolololololololololololol.

OP: Love it, great work, sad days.

To the person wariror tankign Turn 1: Vid please. I really want to see this.

Edit:
OH! RIGHT!!! PPS: Luhn, paladin has mercy stroke too :>