MVP and Vote Kick.. Try to break it!

[silentwindfr]

@Oda: i admit you point something that need to be worked on it. as a tank, if a dps do him jobs like focus my target, don't break the sleep, controle him hate. even if he don't talk, i will often give him my vote.
with the DF i have often play with Japanese that don't talk english, believe me even if they don't talk good player that are patient and nice you will notice them dps or not.

[Fyrebrand]

For Vote Kick, I would suggest these rules:

1) First-timers to any dungeon (players who have not completed it yet) cannot be kicked unless they are AFK/disconnected.

2) No kicks during combat, no kicks directly after a boss is downed & loot is being rolled on, and no kicks after final boss has been defeated. Each player can vote toward limited kicks per day, and a dungeon party has a cooldown on successive kicks.

3) No kicking a player in the first few minutes of them entering a dungeon, for any reason. I'm tempted to include something about kicking just before the final boss, though I'm not sure about the particulars.

4) In a Light Party, you need 3 out of 4 players to pass a vote to Kick. In a Full Party, you need either 6 or 7 out of 8 (I'm not sure of exact number in this case, perhaps the requirement could fluctuate based on circumstances).

5) There should probably be limits on the amount of kicks a player can vote in per day, or perhaps a cooldown on kicking for any particular group. This inhibits repeated kicks, and kicks for petty/minor reasons.

6) Replacements for kicked players must be drawn from the random Duty Finder pool. Manual invites to specific characters are only possible if someone leaves voluntarily, or was AFK/disconnected.

7) A player who is kicked while AFK or disconnected will count as having abandoned the group, and will suffer the penalty for leaving. Apologies to those of us who get legitimately disconnected against their will, but this is necessary to deter the players who intentionally "disconnect" rather than leave. AFK or disconnected characters will automatically be removed from the party after a given time, if not kicked.

8) The penalty for abandoning a DF group increases with each group you abandon per day. Penalty for leaving a group that includes a first-timer is also increased.

9) Someone told me that in WoW, they implemented a system where players who were manually grouped together before entering DF were collectively counted as one "vote." Sounds good to me, though I haven't fully thought through possible downfalls.

Easiest way to prevent cutscene drama is to do it like GW1. Everyone in the party needs to vote to skip, and votes are anonymous. Either that, or a "Story Mode" checkbox in DF.

I really like this, though I'm not sure how effective it would be with cutscenes that are advanced via text boxes, at least as far as it being "anonymous." The player who is still reading is obviously the one who didn't skip. :-P
Maybe the text doesn't advance until all players approve?

I already heard my FC talking about kicking people in DF until they find someone worthwhile. Great job, fix one way to grief and create an entirely new more effective way.

Oh, please. As it is, a single player can decide to ruin an entire run for a party of 4 or 8, and completely waste their time, all while taunting them and daring them to take the penalty for leaving. I'd say that a far more effective way to grief than 3/4 or 7/8 players coming to a consensus to remove 1 player for being a problem. As I and other people have pointed out, there are myriad ways to build in safeguards that minimize abuse and put a muzzle on FCs like yours.



As far as the MVP points system, I'm not aware of any way to abuse it yet. Most criticisms I've heard of it are from people who haven't read up on it, and refer to flaws that don't exist. There are no "down votes." You can't award MVP points to anyone you manually grouped with before queuing -- it's only for randoms. Points are awarded anonymously, after the dungeon is completed. There is no way to make any sort of deals/threats with regards to how points are allocated. You can't "sell" a run for MVP points, or try to coerce anyone into awarding points one way or the other. You literally get them for being a good team player in Duty Finder.

The biggest flaw i can see with the MVP system is that certain roles will just get ignored. I suspect that Tanks will receive a high percentage of the MVPs for doing simple things like marking mobs. What can someone in a DPS role offer to set them apart from the other DPS in the party?

Derp. Okay, so that's one potential shortcoming, even if it isn't really an "abuse". As a DPS, I have also thought about this, but it seems I forgot. Hard to say, we could still end up getting points for having a good attitude, playing well if others aren't, providing advice/strats on bosses, etc. Or maybe this is an incentive to try tanking/healing for a while? Whatever the case, I'd still rather this feature be in the game than not.

[oda]

As far as the MVP points system, I'm not aware of any way to abuse it yet. Most criticisms I've heard of it are from people who haven't read up on it, and refer to flaws that don't exist.

Curious to what you think about the question I raised above regarding what group roles will most likely receive MVP points.

[VitoScaletta]

Really, SE, votekick? I already heard my FC talking about kicking people in DF until they find someone worthwhile. Great job, fix one way to grief and create an entirely new more effective way.

[JayCommon]

The biggest flaw i can see with the MVP system is that certain roles will just get ignored. I suspect that Tanks will receive a high percentage of the MVPs for doing simple things like marking mobs. What can someone in a DPS role offer to set them apart from the other DPS in the party? What about players that perform their jobs perfectly but don't say a word while running the dungeon? I think the intent of the feature is admirable but it will be nearly impossible to implement in a way that is fair to everyone in the group.

This wouldn't be a huge issue if the reward was just bonus gil or tokens, but it has been stated that these will be unique rewards that are only available via this system.

This might encourage DPS roles to not be such mindless drones then. It's true, most DPS just point and attack, but anyone who has been in a group with me will know that I give help whenever it is asked for any role. I pay attention to what everyone's job is during any dungeon, so I can easily give information to a first-time or someone who isn't quite clear about what to do. Also, (as nicely as possible!!!) if we wipe a few times on a certain boss I will offer tips to help whatever the problem may be, and will willingly ask if I'm the reason it's happening.

Also, I doubt it will be mandatory to vote for someone. I think you are overestimating the generosity of the general public. If a tank is just doing his job (marking targets, not attacking slept, etc.) they won't get an MVP vote from me for that. That's kind of what he/she is supposed to be doing anyway. Now, a tank that is getting blindsided by other idiot DPS and chasing hate down all while preventing deaths in a dungeon would certainly be worthy of my vote.

I think, if anything it might be too tough to get an MVP at all, versus votes being given out to a single role with no distribution. I like the system, though. It will make more people strive to be better players than it will discourage them.

[Artamie]

Vote-Kick:

A dps queues into a four man dungeon run. The three other members are three friends who queued in together and stipulates that the random cannot lot on any loot or they can "go back to enjoying the wait".

MVP system:

This is... I don't know... I'm not sure how the exact system works but in my opinion the concept of acknowledging one member of a party as superior seems to fly in the face of encouraging teamwork. Will we begin to see people one-upping each other such as people pointing out EVERY single flaw in the party along the way to the final boss? I hope I'm just paranoid.

[Kayo]

Only thing I dont like about vote-kick is when there is a majority of same-guild "voters" taking the advantage and being an ass to anyone that joins.

No real solution to it IMO, except maybe to make it so if you get vote kicked you get put to the top of the queue. Only a few times though ... there are those who actually deserve to get kicked. Maybe if it only moves the kicked player to the top of the queue if the majority voters dont come from the same server? That sounds like it may work actually....

Dont really see aything particularly wrong with MVP since there is no down vote, and no voting for friends. Not that I believe itll really do much to get rid of the jerks but its not necessarily a bad thing either.

[Gethyn]

Will we begin to see people one-upping each other such as people pointing out EVERY single flaw in the party along the way to the final boss? I hope I'm just paranoid.

I don't think leadership and teamwork is about pointing out flaws at all. It's about genuinely helping the team, explaining fights to those who need it, and not getting needlessly mad over silly shit. Encouraging the team to succeed.

That's the sort of person I would vote MVP for.

[Fyrebrand]

Will we begin to see people one-upping each other such as people pointing out EVERY single flaw in the party along the way to the final boss? I hope I'm just paranoid.

Heh, they can try, but if they think that will win them votes they have another thing coming. I might even give the person they're complaining about a vote, just because.

[TheNeoReaper]

look how the rating system in demons souls was abused.