PLD mechanics and group tanking

[Shuon]

I leveled war and pld tgt til 38 pretty much via dungeons only cuz it was easy to do queue and fun to fight in a group. I couldn't help but to notice that the PLD mechanics seems to be so much more suitable for group/trash tanking.

First, the pre-emptive defensive skills mitigate a lot of difficult-to-foresee damage from groups of mobs.
VERSUS WAR: WAR defensive skills are reactive, and just arn't as effective against a large group of mobs with inconsistent attack patterns.

Secondly, PLD has a fool-proof, sure-hit 360 degree enmity tool that we could literally spam (albeit to a certain extent), and most importantly, it does not interrupt our combos, and does not wake up sleeping mobs.
VERSUS WAR: grabbing aoe enmity as a WAR is easy if 1) mobs are not slept; 2) well positioned, which is hard even at lower level dungeons such as Lady Amandine when she spawned the adds, when as a PLD I could just run past them and Flash while as a WAR, Overpower required me to station myself properly. But most importantly, Overpower breaks our combo and impedes Wrath gain.

Thirdly, Shield Swipe. If you have used it extensively, you would know how much it prcos when you are fighting a group of mobs - practically all the time. Rotating through all the engaged and awake mobs means complete mitigation of damage or so in a very short period of time.
VERSUS WAR: I guess we do have Haymaker ^^;

Fourthly, the ease of PLD combos allows us to easily rotate through multiple mobs amidst the chaos to grab hate with ease.
VERSUS WAR: WAR, assuming its focus on self-heal and tactful use of wraths, relies heavily on Combos. Using Overpower breaks our combos and make wrath-gain impossible. Also, when the situation does not allow Overpower, and hence requires us to rotate through the mobs, the mechanics is just more difficult compared to PLD as we need to have Maim buff up all the time; using Berserk as often as we could for effective healing, which disables us momentarily etc

Finally, the ease of switching between Shield and Sword Oath indicates that PLD is meant to be alternating between them when the situation calls for it, moreover, it has been proven (at least in my impression) that PLD dmg is not sub-par when we are out of Shield Oath.
VERS WAR: turning off Defiance is also easy... but being reliant on Wraths, the cost of having Defiance off is in fact that full stack of Wrath and the immediate readiness to turn into full tanking mode as opposed to switching from Sword to Shield Oath.

When it comes to single-target tanking, we all know that WAR requires a more tactics (at least at this moment, when we, and possibly the dev, are still trying to figure things out). Nonetheless, the philosophy behind WAR is based on self-heal and precision in executing proper rotations in the right circumstances, thereby achieving partial self-sustainability, which could relieve a lot of stress on the healer (or otherwise if the WAR screws up). Letting a WAR tank a single monster seems to be a much more idea idea as far as mechanics are concerned from how I am playing these 2 classes so far. But then again, I'm only 38 and am merely basing my judgment on my impressions and personal play style.

Thoughts?

[WHS]

Any tips on what your rotation is for hm primals and boc, and if it's diff on low dungeons like AV and CC? Any macro's you use in party? Picking up pld as my 3rd job for relic and I would be willing to listen to your advice.

[SpookyGhost]

Any tips on what your rotation is for hm primals and boc, and if it's diff on low dungeons like AV and CC? Any macro's you use in party? Picking up pld as my 3rd job for relic and I would be willing to listen to your advice.

His PLD and WAR are 38, so he doesn't really have that type of experience in terms of tanking that content.

Also, though Steel Cyclone is wasteful, once you get access to that and infuriate it makes trash packs that are spread out a lot more easy to manage. Otherwise, you can always just pull with Tomahawk, move back a few steps, and hit Overpower. The WAR hate combo is as simple as the PLD one, so we too can shift through mobs and go through the motions. When you're looking at a huge amount of trash, the best thing to do is pop Vengeance and Blood Bath for some constant mitigation and building aggro on everything.

PLD can manage ADDs, WAR just has an easier way of dealing with a lot of them and quickly. That said, PLD and WAR are basically on equal footing until 50, and then still on equal footing in most instances until Titan and Coil.

Edit: Also, we get Flash as a cross class from GLD (we just don't get the additional blind), so if you're worried about a WHM/SCH/BLM sleeping mobs and you waking them up, you can just use Flash instead.

[Tronic]

I couldn't help but to notice that the PLD mechanics seems to be so much more suitable for group/trash tanking.

I LOLed
/10char

[Tanaya]

I LOLed
/10char

Wouldn't be that far off.

Paladin has Flash and Circle of Scorn. Flash doesn't deal damage so it doesn't wake up mobs, CoS has a DoT effect, which also doesn't wake up mobs. Furthermore, they don't spend any TP.

Warrior has Overpower, which deals damage and therefore wakes mobs up, and if you really wanna use it, Steel Cyclone, which is wasteful to use most of the time.

The thing that sets Warrior apart from Paladin though is Wrath stacks, Inner Beast, Berserk, and Bloodbath allowing Warrior to handle themselves versus a pack of trash mobs much better than a Paladin does, who pretty much has no self-sustaining abilities, unless you really really really want to use Cure. But I can see why people would think Paladin has the better skillset vs Trash mobs, even though it's actually Warrior that does.

[Shuon]

i've been repeatedly running cutter's cry on pld. will do so on war after i hit 41, although i'm kinda worried about the amount of damage i will be take if the healer can't/is unwilling to kite the ant soldiers, marshal and guards. i shall try and see how it goes xD

[Tronic]

i've been repeatedly running cutter's cry on pld. will do so on war after i hit 41, although i'm kinda worried about the amount of damage i will be take if the healer can't/is unwilling to kite the ant soldiers, marshal and guards. i shall try and see how it goes xD

I don't see why the healer should have to kite: pick them up.

[Shuon]

I don't see why the healer should have to kite: pick them up.

i LOLed
/10char

[BadRNG]

i LOLed
/10char

...why laugh? It's more than doable to tank all the ants at once, and that is with both tanks.

[Shuon]

Because at this moment, picking them up and tanking would probably make life tougher for everyone especially the healer as opposed to tanking them all at all once (which is really like an exploit imo). I have tanked them straight up many times nonetheless, but to 'pick them up' is the 2nd best alternative at this moment, and that was an ill advise.