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  1. #41
    Player
    Dhex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,006
    Character
    Jadus Salaheem
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Remove Path.

    Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Steel Cyclone

    Steel Cyclone:
    TP Cost: 200
    Delivers an attack with a potency of 300 to all nearby enemies. Ignores the 25% damage penalty inflicted by Defiance. 100% DMG returned as HP. Can only be used if Wrath = II or higher. Consumes II Wrath.
    Combo Action: Maim
    Combo Bonus: Raises Skill Speed by 5% for 12s


    Defiance: Increases maximum HP by 25%, while lowering damage dealt by 25% and increasing enmity. Reduces damage taken by 10%.
    Effect ends upon reuse.
    Using certain actions while under the effect of Defiance will grant Wrath. Each unit of Wrath increases critical hit rate by 2% and and HP recovery via curing magic by 3%. When five units are stacked, you will become Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when Defiance ends.

    Rampage: Enemy attacks are nullified; consumes one unit of Wrath per attack nullified. Raises Parry rate & Skill Speed 15%. Duration: 30s

    Edit #1
    I feel like Wrath and Wrath units could be much more dynamic both in what they can do and the amount that gets consumed by certain abilities. (Why is it all Wrath abilities consume all of your Wrath units??) Rampage would allow the Warrior to truly mitigate some damage without being the same as a Paladin (Bulwark/Sentinel/Rampart). Of course some moves will bypass the Wrath mechanics so as not to make Warrior over powered and you might even want to shorten the duration of Wrath - but I think these changes would make Warrior's tool kit work a bit more seamless on higher end content.

    Edit #2
    An ability such as Life Surge should be available on Warrior - ensuring a 100% Critical hit and returning that damage dealt as HP would increase the utility of Inner Beast exceptionally. Wrath consumption via token based damage nullification is still my 1st choice when considering any option for balancing Warrior because it requires you to modify your play style to consistently build Wrath to defend yourself - once your Wrath/Rampage are exhausted you'll Butcher's Block -> Maim+Revised Steel Cyclone to cover your health loss while Infuriate ticks down, or build Wrath and hold it until Rampage ticks down. If you take a spike while at full health full Wrath V you can Inner Beast and recover, or partially recover with Steel Cyclone (Skipping Combo for the healing aspect) then shift into either a Bloodbath cycle or Rampage cycle. It maintain's Warrior's play style while making it comparable with Paladin - but if played inefficiently it puts you at "risk"; currently if you play with the utmost perfection you're still in a constant state of "risk".
    (1)
    Last edited by Dhex; 10-03-2013 at 07:46 AM.

  2. #42
    Player
    Deepsixeden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Riko Tachibana
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Make Defiance add STR stat to Defense?

    Give a passive (or something) that grants 2 stacks of Wrath on critical hits? (Actions and/or Auto Attacks)

    Make Defiance grant more Parry based on Vitality?

    I dunno, I'm just spitballing.
    (0)

  3. #43
    Player
    Kitru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,334
    Character
    Kitru Kitera
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by CygnusMajor View Post
    I don't understand your statement. War was designed as a damage dealing tank with self heals but the damage it deals is too close to what Pld can do. Giving War Fight or Flight would give War an edge in damage and another buff to pop before Inner Beast without having to redesign its abilities.
    Except that you're just adding a bit of damage to a tank; you're not appreciably increasing survivability because not enough survivability is derived from damage dealt to enact that, especially when you're increasing damage over a limited period of time.

    The damage that a tank deals is negligible. If a WAR did 50% more damage than a PLD, it still wouldn't be a major factor in their effectiveness as a tank and usefulness to a group: Tank damage equates to a tiny portion of total damage compared to the multiple DPS that a tank runs with, which will reduce that 50% increase in damage to a whole ~5% increase in total damage dealt by the group, or killing a target in 95.24% of the time that a PLD would. When you consider that a WAR still takes ~10% more healing than a PLD does (8.7% from passive attributes, extra added to account for CD suite inequality), you're still talking about a pretty substantial net loss to group effectiveness.

    Fight or Flight wouldn't really solve anything. To, once again, use the analogy, it's a band-aid on a broken leg. It's not going to do anything.
    (2)

  4. #44
    Player
    Gamemako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    795
    Character
    Elysia Mazda
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
    Except that the issue isn't that WAR self-heals aren't large enough; it's that their self *do not scale properly*.
    That is why we have the +healing on Wrath to begin with. WAR's self-heals are not for maintaining HP pools; they are for addressing damage spikes. In that sense, I think it would be best to reduce the usage rate of Inner Beast if anything along with increasing the healing amount, making it a superior burst mitigation method. Really, if you want to fix WAR, you have to look at its deficiencies and address them specifically.

    WAR dies to burst damage?
    ->Increase eHP or add/improve burst mitigation ability.
    WAR inferior over time?
    ->Increase HP healing received bonus, increase mitigation, or increase self-healing ability.
    WAR's self-healing too weak to make a dent?
    ->Boost healing amount or boost healing rate.
    WAR has inferior utility abilities?
    ->Add additional effect to other skills, provide other advantages which make weakness acceptable.

    In this case, I think it's clear that SE must increase the HP bonus from Defiance, because a drain tank demands that it have more eHP than a mitigation tank. PLD doesn't have too much, WAR just has too little. This should address the first problem. Burst mitigation abilities could also use improvement (ToB being blah, though it's tough to fix due to the fact that it heals you right now), but adding new ones requires finding ability space and making it work without being overpowered. For healing over time, improving flat healing will just result in the job being overpowered solo and in 4-man content. This means it should be pretty much left alone as a rate. Mitigation would just be turning WAR into PLD, which is silly. Thus, boost HP recovery bonus. In my first post, I matched it at peak to PLD, but I think I prefer the solution others have given: take the boost off of Wrath entirely. Until that happens, using IB will hurt you, and that's never a good place. I'd put Defiance at a flat 20% boost to healing received. This is less than PLD's effective 25%, but self-healing is added to rather than opposed to this. With that, you can also afford to reduce Wrath generation rates, and that will let you increase the potency of IB's heal to make it a more effective burst mitigation tool. You keep overall healing rate the same (or even reduce it a bit), so it doesn't harm solo and 4-man balance, but you make the tool more significant for endgame, especially when combined with Berserk/Maim/SE for doubled potency. With HP recovery off Wrath, you also give players the opportunity to use the ability, and you'd have the HP pool to accept the increased drain. The final one... pshaw, just make Steel Cyclone not complete trash. Anyway, these tweaks (only two really major changes -- HP bonus on Defiance and doing something-or-other to Steel Cyclone) wouldn't do a whole lot for WAR in 35-50 dungeons, but it would hugely improve WAR's stock in endgame dungeons.

    //EDIT: Had to fix my own comma splice. It was bothering me.
    (1)
    Last edited by Gamemako; 10-03-2013 at 07:10 AM.

  5. #45
    Player
    Leiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    563
    Character
    Haeen Kazerith
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    What if defiance also increased Parry stat by 20%, and using Storm's Path provided a shield that did the following

    Creates a shield that blocks 10% of all damage, of up to 300% of the Warrior's Maximum health.

    Tis would provide a 10% mitigation, and also mean Storm's path has meaning.
    (2)

  6. #46
    Player
    Gamemako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    795
    Character
    Elysia Mazda
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Leiron View Post
    What if defiance also increased Parry stat by 20%
    You could, but you'd be moving into PLD territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leiron View Post
    and using Storm's Path provided a shield that did the following
    Remember that not all content is BC, so when you make changes that scale by a flat number, they're better in content with fewer people (where WAR doesn't need help) and weaker in content with many people (where WAR struggles). If you did anything with SP, it has to scale proportionally without a cap. Ideally, you'd make it scale exponentially (weaker early, powerful later), but that usually ends up broken with time and it's very difficult to implement.

    //EDIT: I'm not saying current SP is any better, of course, being effectively a flat heal. Your idea would still be better than the current one in terms of endgame. However, I'm just saying that if you want to make an ability improve the stock of WAR, you should look squarely at endgame.
    (0)
    Last edited by Gamemako; 10-03-2013 at 07:09 AM.

  7. #47
    Player
    ZDamned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    388
    Character
    Pacifica Auras
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    I have a few things in my head. All of them are planned based on the other list items, so read through them as if they are all implemented already.

    Enhance our damage to set us apart from Paladin. Further define our role as an Off-Tank, positioning us between Damage Dealer and Tank. (Why does a 2-handed Axe deal roughly equal damage to a 1-handed sword with a shield?)
    -Remove 5% of the damage penalty from Defiance.
    -Defiance also adds 5% Parry chance per Wrath Stack.
    -Remove Storms Path from the Storms Eye Combo.
    -Storms Path triggers with a successful parry, and heals you for 65% of the damage dealt.
    -Storms Path is no longer triggers a GCD.
    -Reduce Steel Cyclone Damage by 45%.
    -Steel Cyclone only consumes 1 Stack of Wrath.
    (0)

  8. #48
    Player
    Hundred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    282
    Character
    Delcas Seven
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 81
    Defiance ~ increase heal from 3% to 4%
    Enhanced Foresight ~ 60s CD.
    Storm path ~ Gives 2 stacks of Wrath 150% absorb
    (0)
    Last edited by Hundred; 10-03-2013 at 10:17 AM.

  9. #49
    Player
    Takamorisan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    240
    Character
    Takamori Maruyama
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Remove the DMG% debuff from defiance, use the same core mechanic of stacking wrath, though now defiance already grant a 15% healing bonus, with stacks goes to 30% and the crit bonus.

    Foresight reduce 20% overall dmg instead of "buffing" the defense.

    Move Storm Path after Butchers Block combo, so you actually have something to incentive its use.

    Remove pacify debuff from Berserker .

    Unchained merge with Berserker, besides 50% AP, grants you a guaranteed crit on the next IB.
    (1)

  10. #50
    Player
    Shizzaren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    35
    Character
    Shizzaren Corya
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Why dont we just aswell give a warrior a new spell: "Instanstly kills the boss when he is under 90% health and gives you immortality for 1 minute. Cooldown 30 seconds" Warriors are fine as they are now, you just need to know how to use their tools.... If it is so horrible, go reroll or something instead of whining on the forums..
    (0)

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