How would you fix Warrior?

[Kitru]

1. Exchange the damage penalty on Defiance with a penalty to critical hit %.

This would equate to a complete and utter lack of DPS decrease. You're essentially asking for a 30% increase in total DPS.

2. With Wrath, change the increase healing to reduce hate generated by external heals by a %. We have 2 cross class abilities that can increase healing %.

Which is simply going to make it harder to heal a WAR tank. The 15% +healing is the only reason that WAR requires 8.7% more healing than a PLD rather than 25%. You're essentially asking for WAR to become an even *harder* to heal tank.

3. Increase bloodbath healing percentage.

Bloodbath provides a comparatively small amount of self healing. You get more out of using IB>Infuriate every 60 seconds and that's actually controllable for burst healing when you need it, rather than having 90% of it wasted on overhealing because your healers top you off. Unless you increase it to some obscene amount, it's not going to get anywhere close to offsetting the loss of increased healing from your Wrath change and it simply creates further problems since you're just replacing a mitigation mechanism that *does* scale with incoming damage with one that doesn't.

4. All self healing generates double enmity.

I'm curious why exactly you feel like this is needed. AoE enmity generation always comes at the cost of ST enmity generation. You're essentially asking for WAR to get a crapton of AoE enmity generation for absolutely free (you're increasing damage *and* increasing self healing *and* making it generate enmity, which it doesn't do now). Hell, with this change, you wouldn't even *need* Overpower or Flash: you'd generate all of the AoE enmity you need just punching a single target (which could actually be really problematic when you're having to work with an OT that's supposed to handle adds).

5. While I like overpower, replace it with an ability that is the same as Flash, but uses TP. Make this ability a cross class skill that pld/gld can use as well.

So you want an ability that deals no damage but still consumes TP? You do realize that one of the major advantages of Flash is that it's effectively free: a PLD can use it without any impact on TP whatsoever (interestingly enough, it actually ends up turning into a 50 TP *gain* every time you use it). Even if WAR were given a clone of Flash that consumed 50 TP instead of any amount of MP, it would *still* be worse than Flash; in fact, it would end up being a substantial buff to PLD because, while both WAR and PLD would be using your TP-Flash clone in exactly the same way, PLD would be getting more than double the cost effectiveness out of Flash because they're packing more than double the mp (which means they regenerate MP faster and have more uses before they bottom out).

Really, do you have *any* idea what your ideas would actually do? All you'd be doing is turning WAR into even less of a tank and giving them better DPS. The only thing they'd be useful for is soloing because a tank that generates gobloads of enmity on absolutely everything regardless of what they're doing but is effectively impossible to keep alive because their survivability is only marginally better than a DPS isn't a tank. It's an annoyance that makes everyone's life harder: the actual tank can't tank and the healers have to burn through MP like there's no tomorrow.

Your ideas would "fix" WAR, but not in the sense that's you intended; the version you'd be going with is the one that generally gets applied to pets.

[Rios-Drakoon]

1. Put the Extraheal directly to Defiance and increase it to 20% (PLD take 20% less dmg we take 20% more heal, fair deal i think)
2. Change Bloodbath from 25% dmg done in to 3% max HP
3. Change StormsPath from 50% dmg done in to 10% max HP
4. Change Inner Beast from 300% dmg done in to 30% max HP

[Surfie]

1. Put the Extraheal directly to Defiance and increase it to 20% (PLD take 20% less dmg we take 20% more heal, fair deal i think)
2. Change Bloodbath from 25% dmg done in to 3% max HP
3. Change StormsPath from 50% dmg done in to 10% max HP
4. Change Inner Beast from 300% dmg done in to 30% max HP

The Inner Beast change would almost be a nerf.

[Symbiant]

snip

Even though I am not a warrior... I still have a goofy Idea.

Change Vengeance. Take away the cool down and make it a buff like the shield of oath.

Instead of it just doing a counter attack make it counter a attack that restores 20% of the damage dealt by the mob.

Of course you probably would have to add some kind of negative effect as well so people would not say it's totally over powered.

I could also be way off and this could make warrior the preferred tank. TBH I don't really give a crud. OT / MT pretty much the same thing to me it's just tanking and either way if the raid fails

either you or the healer will be blamed for the fail.

[Leiron]

The Inner Beast change would almost be a nerf.

You will never be able to restore your health up to 30% as gear continues to scale.
Warriors do not work that way.
Its a buff.

[Grogin]

Kitru

The difference between a war and pld tank is supposed to be self healing/hp vs damage mitigation. Currently a war is not on a similar playing field woth pld with this. The changes I recomended are meant to increase the viability of a war's self healing abilities, bringing them closer to a pld's damage mitigation. A lack of damage penalty increases bloodbath's usefulness as a self healer from normal attacks. Decreasing the enmity healers receive from healing us is a seperate option for making the comparison between war and pld equivalent. Not all 5 of my ideas need to go together to work, they are individual ideas.

As for taking away the damage penalty, yes I want to increase the damage a warrior does, but still keep it lower than a traditional DD. If a warrior cannot do a relevant increased damage over a paladin, then one of the supposed draws of playing a warrior is gone. Also, the damage increase is mainly to increase the effectiveness of self healing abilities (Bloodbath). If these abilities can be made more relevant in other ways, then I am all for it. Making the decrease to Critical hit rate, instead of overall damage, ensures we cannot stack crit % and turn into a spike damage dealer.

Finally, a tp based flash is supposed to have the drawbacks you mentioned. Yes, it makes for tp spending decisions. Yes, pld might get more use out of it. However, war are not have even close to the mp pld has, as you said. Warriors do not have enough mp to make flash a viable ability in extended fights. Making it a cross class skill will give pld a boost, but it provides a war with a way to ensure adds that join later in a fight focus the tank.

[Ursok]

How about give us stuff we had back in 1.23

• Rampage (Stance) Increases your attack speed and parry rating for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land. Effect fades over time and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used simultaneously with Berserk.
• (fracure old) Deliver a devastating blow, dealing blunt damage and rendering the target incapable of using weaponskills. Can only be executed following a parry.
• (Steel Cyclone old) Delivers a melee attack to enemies in range. Resets Rampage effect when active to increase damage. Chance to inflict Stun when target is attacking you. Combo Action: Skull Sunder Combo Bonus: Increased critical hit rate.
• (Collusion) Redirects a portion of enmity generated by target party member's next offensive ability to you. Target must be within 8 yalms.
• (Antgonize) Increases enmity generated by all actions.

[Hachiko]

1. Exchange the damage penalty on Defiance with a penalty to critical hit %.
2. With Wrath, change the increase healing to reduce hate generated by external heals by a %. We have 2 cross class abilities that can increase healing %.
3. Increase bloodbath healing percentage.
4. All self healing generates double enmity.
5. While I like overpower, replace it with an ability that is the same as Flash, but uses TP. Make this ability a cross class skill that pld/gld can use as well.

This is funny:

1. A a significant buff to WAR damage and a sizeable nerf to WAR self heals.
2. A HUGE nerf to warrior tanking (this would make them non-viable as a tank in anything beyond AK.)
3. a very minor buff to WAR self healing, maybe to offset the fact that you're nerfing their self healing with #1?
4. A buff to WAR AOE Enmity
5. A buff to PLD AOE enmity

This would make WAR no longer viable as a main tank in any content, it would increase their DPS to sub DPS levels. It would likely be a net nerf to WAR self healing as well, but an increase in enmity generation, packaged with a buff to paladins AOE tanking capability.

Are you sure you're in the right place?

[Kitru]

1. Put the Extraheal directly to Defiance and increase it to 20% (PLD take 20% less dmg we take 20% more heal, fair deal i think)

It's not a fair deal because you're bad at math. 20% reduction in damage taken equates to a 25% increased in effective healing received.

2. Change Bloodbath from 25% dmg done in to 3% max HP
3. Change StormsPath from 50% dmg done in to 10% max HP
4. Change Inner Beast from 300% dmg done in to 30% max HP

None of these would fix the problem that the self-healing does not scale with incoming damage. Incoming damage *always* scales faster than hp or damage output. It *has* to in order to offset the continually larger resource pools of healers to force them to use less resource efficient heals that provide greater throughput.

Mitigation mechanisms *must* scale with incoming damage, not damage output or max hp. For a few CDs, it works fine, but fundamental mitigation mechanisms that a class is *built* around need to scale with the correct variable, else the self-healing numbers will need to *constantly* be reevaluated with every tier of gear lest WAR fall behind yet again (and each reevaluation is just going to make WAR better and better at any situation where damage *isn't* above the raid damage threshold).

I have yet to see a single MMO that has actually stuck with a tank that uses differently scaling self-healing as a large portion of their mitigation without admitting they've simply abandoned all efforts at balancing classes. *Every single one* moves away from them because they *always* present overwhelming problems with balance that cannot be addressed. It is an interesting concept, but it is *just not possible* within the realms of a balanced game.

If any change happens to WAR self heals, it needs to be changing the scaling mechanism to incoming damage. Changing it to anything else is just putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

[Yuhart]

Some ideas that crossed my mind while reading all of yours:

Defiance: Move +healing from Wrath to Defiance and buff to 20% as others have said.

Wrath: Add dmg debuff to target while in Defiance(maybe 5% with full stacks), an absorb % per stack or a Parry buff as others have said.

Foresight: Possibly add a Parry buff on top of the defense buff.

Storm's Path: Reduce cost or increase heal and move to combo off of Skull Sunder. Gives you choice to further increase enmity, heal or debuff without losing the enmity gain from SS.

Storm's Eye: Move to combo off of Skull Sunder. Gives you choice to further increase enmity, heal or debuff without losing the enmity gain from SS.

Combos:

HS > SS > BB (Enmity)
HS > SS > SE (Debuff)
HS > SS > SP (Self-heal)

This way we are always adding enmity like PLD except we get the option of what we need at the end.

Unchained: No longer removes wrath stacks. Possibly increase CD and/or reduce duration for balancing purposes or simply reduce CD.

Overpower: Rename to Whirlwind: Spinning atk with same radius as flash. Can be Cross-classed. Possibly additional effect akin to the blind on flash but for WAR only.

Steel Cyclone: Add Heal.

Inner Beast: Our Oh #### button. Increase potency. I think a minorly buffed IB should fill ~25% of your health while a full buffed one should get you to 50% (once every 2mins due to CDs).

WAR in Defiance should not out DPS a PLD. If they would then once the selfheal issues are resolved, WAR would become preferred for the additional DPS.

The simple truth is all WAR needs is more potent self healing to bridge the 8-9% healing gap that Kitru pointed out.

Move the +healing to defiance instead of wrath and increase the +healing to 20-25%.

Everything else would just be icing on the cake. For me that is.