How would you fix Warrior?

[Rios-Drakoon]

1. Put the Extraheal directly to Defiance and increase it to 20% (PLD take 20% less dmg we take 20% more heal, fair deal i think)
2. Change Bloodbath from 25% dmg done in to 3% max HP
3. Change StormsPath from 50% dmg done in to 10% max HP
4. Change Inner Beast from 300% dmg done in to 30% max HP

[Surfie]

1. Put the Extraheal directly to Defiance and increase it to 20% (PLD take 20% less dmg we take 20% more heal, fair deal i think)
2. Change Bloodbath from 25% dmg done in to 3% max HP
3. Change StormsPath from 50% dmg done in to 10% max HP
4. Change Inner Beast from 300% dmg done in to 30% max HP

The Inner Beast change would almost be a nerf.

[Leiron]

The Inner Beast change would almost be a nerf.

You will never be able to restore your health up to 30% as gear continues to scale.
Warriors do not work that way.
Its a buff.

[Kitru]

1. Put the Extraheal directly to Defiance and increase it to 20% (PLD take 20% less dmg we take 20% more heal, fair deal i think)

It's not a fair deal because you're bad at math. 20% reduction in damage taken equates to a 25% increased in effective healing received.

2. Change Bloodbath from 25% dmg done in to 3% max HP
3. Change StormsPath from 50% dmg done in to 10% max HP
4. Change Inner Beast from 300% dmg done in to 30% max HP

None of these would fix the problem that the self-healing does not scale with incoming damage. Incoming damage *always* scales faster than hp or damage output. It *has* to in order to offset the continually larger resource pools of healers to force them to use less resource efficient heals that provide greater throughput.

Mitigation mechanisms *must* scale with incoming damage, not damage output or max hp. For a few CDs, it works fine, but fundamental mitigation mechanisms that a class is *built* around need to scale with the correct variable, else the self-healing numbers will need to *constantly* be reevaluated with every tier of gear lest WAR fall behind yet again (and each reevaluation is just going to make WAR better and better at any situation where damage *isn't* above the raid damage threshold).

I have yet to see a single MMO that has actually stuck with a tank that uses differently scaling self-healing as a large portion of their mitigation without admitting they've simply abandoned all efforts at balancing classes. *Every single one* moves away from them because they *always* present overwhelming problems with balance that cannot be addressed. It is an interesting concept, but it is *just not possible* within the realms of a balanced game.

If any change happens to WAR self heals, it needs to be changing the scaling mechanism to incoming damage. Changing it to anything else is just putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

[PessimiStick]

I have yet to see a single MMO that has actually stuck with a tank that uses differently scaling self-healing as a large portion of their mitigation without admitting they've simply abandoned all efforts at balancing classes. *Every single one* moves away from them because they *always* present overwhelming problems with balance that cannot be addressed. It is an interesting concept, but it is *just not possible* within the realms of a balanced game.

That's not entirely true. See: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49998

The real key, like you said, is that it has to scale off of *incoming* damage, and not be primarily tied to any stats possessed by the player.

[xxbodkinxx]

I would like to see our wrath finishers provide utility rather then damage personally.

5 stacks of wrath

1. Absorption Shield
2. Group Heal
3. Increased healing effectiveness
4. Debuffs magic damage taken
5. Debuffs physical damage taken.
6. AOE HOT

Few ideas. I like the idea of using my wrath stacks based off what I need. Group i low use a move that grans aoe heal. Your low bubble yourself. About to LBx5 on a dragoon debuff boss to take more physical damage etc. Leave me slightly under pallies for single target tanking superior in aoe situations and let me bring some cool utility to the raid. It would solidify your spot and make for s fun class.

[Coramac]

There's a potential other way to address the issue that hasn't been brought up to my knowledge. Inner Beast could give a buff that increases healing for a set amount of time. 25% for 10 seconds. Or maybe to give the Warrior a lot more of a flavor difference, 50% for the next 3-5 seconds.

[Symbiant]

snip

Even though I am not a warrior... I still have a goofy Idea.

Change Vengeance. Take away the cool down and make it a buff like the shield of oath.

Instead of it just doing a counter attack make it counter a attack that restores 20% of the damage dealt by the mob.

Of course you probably would have to add some kind of negative effect as well so people would not say it's totally over powered.

I could also be way off and this could make warrior the preferred tank. TBH I don't really give a crud. OT / MT pretty much the same thing to me it's just tanking and either way if the raid fails

either you or the healer will be blamed for the fail.

[Grogin]

Kitru

The difference between a war and pld tank is supposed to be self healing/hp vs damage mitigation. Currently a war is not on a similar playing field woth pld with this. The changes I recomended are meant to increase the viability of a war's self healing abilities, bringing them closer to a pld's damage mitigation. A lack of damage penalty increases bloodbath's usefulness as a self healer from normal attacks. Decreasing the enmity healers receive from healing us is a seperate option for making the comparison between war and pld equivalent. Not all 5 of my ideas need to go together to work, they are individual ideas.

As for taking away the damage penalty, yes I want to increase the damage a warrior does, but still keep it lower than a traditional DD. If a warrior cannot do a relevant increased damage over a paladin, then one of the supposed draws of playing a warrior is gone. Also, the damage increase is mainly to increase the effectiveness of self healing abilities (Bloodbath). If these abilities can be made more relevant in other ways, then I am all for it. Making the decrease to Critical hit rate, instead of overall damage, ensures we cannot stack crit % and turn into a spike damage dealer.

Finally, a tp based flash is supposed to have the drawbacks you mentioned. Yes, it makes for tp spending decisions. Yes, pld might get more use out of it. However, war are not have even close to the mp pld has, as you said. Warriors do not have enough mp to make flash a viable ability in extended fights. Making it a cross class skill will give pld a boost, but it provides a war with a way to ensure adds that join later in a fight focus the tank.

[Kitru]

The changes I recomended are meant to increase the viability of a war's self healing abilities, bringing them closer to a pld's damage mitigation.

Except that the issue isn't that WAR self-heals aren't large enough; it's that their self *do not scale properly*. Nothing you've recommended gets even *remotely* close to addressing this.

A lack of damage penalty increases bloodbath's usefulness as a self healer from normal attacks.

Except that, in order to increase Bloodbath's usefulness to be an appreciable self heal in the context of a non-solo environment, you need to either boost the damage or the self-healing so monumentally high that a WAR would be effectively unkillable while solo.

Decreasing the enmity healers receive from healing us is a seperate option for making the comparison between war and pld equivalent.

How does that do *anything* to address the disparity between WAR and PLD? WAR and PLD enmity is pretty much even, even from an AoE standpoint (WAR AoE enmity generation is handicapped by a monumentally high cost that prevents excessive use of Overpower whereas a PLD can Flash spam without any issues whatsoever). The math has been done *numerous* times. The only way that it could address the problem is if you somehow think that healers are limited by their enmity generation rather than by the things that *actually* limit them, like resource consumption and cast speed. A WAR requires 8.7% more healing than a PLD while generating *more* than enough enmity to keep threat on everything. Enmity is not the problem, which you seem to think it is. The actual amount of healing required over the long term is the problem.

Not all 5 of my ideas need to go together to work, they are individual ideas.

None of your ideas work *at all*. Did you not get that from my responses to each of them? They're *all* terrible and demonstrate a complete and utter lack of understanding of what is being discussed.

Increasing the damage still has WAR requiring a lot more healing than a PLD (while also causing there to be no penalty whatsoever to being in the tank stance, which is just borked as hell) and *still* doesn't have it scale properly, meaning that PLD is still the better tank because damage taken is what makes a tank, not damage dealt.

Tweaking enmity in any way does *nothing* whatsoever to actually address the problems with WAR tanking because enmity is *not* a limiting factor for *either* tank's survivability (I can only guess you don't grasp this because you're a terrible tank that hasn't even gotten to end game content and loses threat to every healer you run with because you have no idea how to generate and maintain enmity on multiple targets): enmity and survivability are disparate constructs that are *not* connected in any appreciable way.

As stated before, a buff to Bloodbath does nothing to actually make WARs better. To make it useful, you have to buff it so massively that WAR becomes unkillable in solo play (not to mention that you have to accomplish this in a way that only WARs benefit from it, since Bloodbath is an additional ability for PLDs; if you don't, you're buffing PLD nearly as much as you're buffing WAR).

Your change to Overpower simply demonstrates that you're completely ignorant of *so* many fundamental aspects of game balance. Hell, I'm not even sure how you think that Overpower, as it stands now, is somehow incapable of getting adds later on in a fight. The best I can figure is that you just have no clue whatsoever how to actually play and manage the enmity game in ARR. Most of your ideas are so disconnected from what is *actually* wrong with WAR that I seriously have to wonder if you've read *anything* on the subject before opening your mouth and let the sewage that spewed from the waste factory of your mind flow forth. Your ideas are completely and utterly idiotic and demonstrative of both inexperience as well as an utter incapability of actually approaching a situation from a logical and analytical viewpoint. You've got no idea what you're talking about in *any* way, shape, or form. The level of intelligence you've demonstrated is a reasonable indicator that your intelligence compares disfavorably with that of a piece of sedimentary stone (if you didn't get that, I'm calling you dumber than a rock).