Solution to WAR problem is to nerf PLD

[Tanaya]

And like a war you will have to manage your cool down to survive.

So in other words you have no idea how to play Paladin.

Gotcha.

[wlakiz]

And where are you getting those numbers? Let's assume warrior doesnt have increased VIT (which it does) and both PLD and WAR have exactly 5k HP. 40% of 5k is 2k, so it would be 7k. We also have to know when to use our cooldowns...



So you're upset that the developers made the class you want to play more involved? You know half the people are complaining about PLD being TOO SIMPLE.

Ehm.. War with defiance only gives 25% more HP.. Where did you get 40%? I perfectly happy with war that's why I suggest them to Nerf pld instead of buffing war

[Sephirah]

Ehm.. War with defiance only gives 25% more HP.. Where did you get 40%? I perfectly happy with war that's why I suggest them to Nerf pld instead of buffing war

Hmm, I was trying to find it but I can't now. So let's assume it's just 25%, even still, they do get an increased effect from vit, more than pld. And usually on Titan, a pld in there will have between 5-5.2k hp, and wars will generally have around 7k (at least from what I've seen). Nerfing paladin's defense is no different than buffing WAR.

Paladin's defensive mitigation is the only thing it has going for it. I'm sorry if you find the warrior playstyle stressful, but saying "hey, let's just make it so the class that was designed to take a hit, can't take a hit" is just ridiculous. a 4.5k mountain buster with a PLD tank would almost guarantee a wipe.

[wlakiz]

Paladin's defensive mitigation is the only thing it has going for it. I'm sorry if you find the warrior playstyle stressful, but saying "hey, let's just make it so the class that was designed to take a hit, can't take a hit" is just ridiculous. a 4.5k mountain buster with a PLD tank would almost guarantee a wipe.

The only reason you see 5 - 5.2 k pld and 7k WARs in there is because WAR are forced to get more gear than pally to do titan (and we put all our spare stats in Vit). There is nothing wrong with having to get more gear, but there is something wrong with PLD not needing to get gear. Nerf PLD.

If you can't handle a 4.5k Mountain buster then you really need to learn to play.

[PiedPiper]

The only reason you see 5 - 5.2 k pld and 7k WARs in there is because WAR are forced to get more gear than pally to do titan (and we put all our spare stats in Vit). There is nothing wrong with having to get more gear, but there is something wrong with PLD not needing to get gear. Nerf PLD.

If you can't handle a 4.5k Mountain buster then you really need to learn to play.

What pally has ever taken 4.5k from MB? Even on night one of progression I only took 3k. Maybe if I was sword oath tanking, but that would be as silly as warrior not using defiance. Also, no tank has that much control over what happens to them after a hit of that size.

The only content I haven't done with WAR are coils and titan, for everything else I didn't seem to really have any major issues.

THIS. THIS is the problem. Yes, warrior can be carried through titan. Congrats, you took hits and your healers went god mode, cool. Why? The fight would have been much easier with a paladin.

Coils: Find me ONE video of warior tanking Cad from turn 1. Just one video. I have not been able to find a single warrior tank vid from turn one final boss. I'm pretty confident a sch with several ilvl90 pieces might be able to carry a similarly geared warrior, but a ilvl 70 healer and ilvl 70 pld can do it just fine. Why make it harder than it needs to be? You see, once you reach this content, the problems with warrior show. Its effective hp is too low, its self heals are too infrequent. So many warriors come on here and say "I can heal myself for a billion once every two minutes." Cool story, what are you doing for those other 119 seconds? Getting wrecked and killed? Awesome.

Don't get it twisted. Its not like paladins think this is a good thing. As peopel have mentioned, the history of the game has been feast or famine for tanking class viability. Only rarely have both classes been workable. This isn't fair to either class and it shouldn't be the case that players are calling for nerfs to the class that currently works out of spite. We should all want both classes to actually work.

Yes, warrior can tank anything pre-titan, some of those better than a pld. THIS COULD NOT MATTER LESS. All pre-titan content can be tanked by titan-egi (I'm not kidding, I've been in both castrum and pratoreum groups that did this for the lulz). It is only when we get to end game of titan hm and coils that it matters what people are playing and how they are playing, and it is then that we see the problems with warriors sustain.


To the person that mentioned warrior + scholar. Yes and no. Yes, a sch will help a warrior. But they would help a paladin more, actually. You see, for the time that warrior has +15% healing recieved, it is true that sch shields are 15% more. But, paladins are always taking 20% less damage, so its actually a 5% advantage per mp spent by the sch.

Ex: Adloquim crit for 1k.
On paladin: Applies a 2k shield, because of shield oath, absorbs 2.4k damage.
On warrior: Applies a 2.3k shield, absorbs 2.3k damage.
Advantage: Paladin by 100 damage.

If you REALLLLLY want to get into self healing as "making up" that 100 points, just remember, should I choose, I can chain cast a 8% effective hp buff on myself. once I run out of mana, I can still continue to cast it every other gcd by using a combo. By the time you reach the piont in fights like cad and titan where this woudl be useful, pld will have plenty of threat to not worry about loosing threat. I have done this, largely out of boredom, or because a healer died. Can you heal/shield yourself for 8% every 3 seconds?

Please, please, please buff warrior. Grant them an aura that is a pernament +20% to healing received. This will increase their own heals and grant them the same effective hp as paladin, only in a different way. Paladin reduces up front, warrior receives more on the back end. This is also how our healers are currently balanced: SCH reduces up front, WHM restores more on the back end.

[astrobear]

THIS. THIS is the problem. Yes, warrior can be carried through titan. Congrats, you took hits and your healers went god mode, cool. Why? The fight would have been much easier with a paladin.

Coils: Find me ONE video of warior tanking Cad from turn 1. Just one video. I have not been able to find a single warrior tank vid from turn one final boss. I'm pretty confident a sch with several ilvl90 pieces might be able to carry a similarly geared warrior, but a ilvl 70 healer and ilvl 70 pld can do it just fine. Why make it harder than it needs to be? You see, once you reach this content, the problems with warrior show. Its effective hp is too low, its self heals are too infrequent. So many warriors come on here and say "I can heal myself for a billion once every two minutes." Cool story, what are you doing for those other 119 seconds? Getting wrecked and killed? Awesome.

well this BC from a warroir view. he does tank cad for a bit (off tank?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8EVwkOd2js

and turn 2 if you are curious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX8jKn6MiT0

im not taking side on this issue as my war tank is still lvl 30 (im trying to lvl my pgl to lvl 30 before i proceed to leveling war)

[Conna]

I'm sorry if you find the warrior playstyle stressful

Its not so much that the warrior may find its playstyle stressful. Its that healers find its playstyle stressful (also ineffective, but thats for another time).

[Citizen_Thom]

If the game is supposed to be fun, then they shouldn't be nerfing anyone.

[KimTaeyeon]

If anyone wants to nerf the permanent 20% DR from Shield Oath to something like 25% chance to -20% dmg received, then Warrior's Defiance should be nerfed to something like 25% chance to heal 20% of dmg received.

Warriors have many tanking stuff, just need to be more actively rotate the right skill on the right time. If they make WAR's playstyle the same as PLD, it shouldn't be fun.

[Cursedsoul]

The major difference between paladin and warrior is how much EASIER the paladin is to play. The warrior is much more about well timed self heals and knowing when to use things like berserk... or maybe a "defense" cooldown. A paladin can mostly spam his attacks, and throwing up a defense here or there in case of a "oh crap" moment.

Ultimately though, a warrior needs a scholar in the group. The rapid heals and absorb buffs make a perfect match with the warrior. The self heals become near worthless if two white mages or a warrior are 'competing' on who gets to heal the tank.

The need for attention and 'skill' is what makes the warrior valuable. If warriors are to be made better, make it minor. A 5% defense boost OR a 5%-10% self heal potential increase. Anything more than that would turn the warrior into another mindless job. Paladins are fine as they are.

(Side note: I wonder what people will be saying when PVP gets into the game...)