Could I take a moment of your time (WHM related)

[Razzle]

I have to get rid of my reflex of casting regen ( > . > ;

[Joshhoowah]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Healers generate enmity on 50% efficiency, and it's shared across multiple mobs.
For example, regen ticks for 348, that's 174 enmity generated. If 3 mobs are pulled, that 174 enmity is shared so each would only have 58 enmity.

Tank generates enmity on 300% efficiency, so for tank to pull off a 58 enmity regen tick on 3 mobs, he would have to do 20 dmg to each. Now I'm not sure how much enmity flash generates, but could it be less than 58 enmity? Now I'm sure as heck that shield lob doesn't do 19 damage at level 50...

The problem with Regen isn’t the amount of enmity it generates, it’s that it generates enmity. When a tank pulls, they need to bring the linked mobs into range of their AoE enmity generating abilities. If regen ticks after the pull but before flash for overpower can be used, the linked mobs will head straight for the healer.

I haven't got GLD/PLD up too high yet, so it's good to know that I should click it off before the pull or be ready to intercept the links.

[Kobolt]

I have to get rid of my reflex of casting regen ( > . > ;

there is nothing wrong with using it, but you shouldn't rely on it to heal. Regen is good to use on Tanks and players you can't spend the time to heal, like a DPS who got smacked. other than that, use Cure I, II, and III. Medica II on a few occasions when you know everyone is getting damaged. a good tip is when you stack in iftir hard mode, is to use Medica II for the party, and then regen on the tank... he'll pretty much give you a good 20 seconds of rest/mana regen.

[Steeled]

As the OP of one of those threads, and probably that thread, let me explain.

You may or may not know but the server is not perfectly in sync with the client's display on positioning/facing.

Regen generates more threat-per-hp-healed than a cure, but that's not really an issue. Paladins should be able to out-threat your heals.

The problem is that when I pull, or any paladin, since the toolbox is limited.

I shield lob my first target. This isn't going to hit you, not from regen tics.
I try to race to the pack, get a Circle of Scorn off - this is off the GCD and immediately says to the mobs "hey, attack that guy", a tick of regen will out-hate a tick of Circle of Scorn. Paladins, leveling, won't have CoS.
Immediately after this (within like a second), I flash. There, now I have hate.
I do my single target rotation and flash again, you're safe.

The problem is if a regen tic flies off at just the wrong time during the pull, even if it was 100% overheal, the mobs start heading to you and even though, on my screen, I flashed at the proper spot to avoid this, the server frequently disagrees. The best thing a tank can do at this point is run to the whm, and try to flash there.

If things are waking up and coming for you, that's usually a tank not doing his job, not flashing enough.

[Sylve]

As the OP of one of those threads, and probably that thread, let me explain.

You may or may not know but the server is not perfectly in sync with the client's display on positioning/facing.

Regen generates more threat-per-hp-healed than a cure, but that's not really an issue. Paladins should be able to out-threat your heals.

The problem is that when I pull, or any paladin, since the toolbox is limited.

I shield lob my first target. This isn't going to hit you, not from regen tics.
I try to race to the pack, get a Circle of Scorn off - this is off the GCD and immediately says to the mobs "hey, attack that guy", a tick of regen will out-hate a tick of Circle of Scorn. Paladins, leveling, won't have CoS.
Immediately after this (within like a second), I flash. There, now I have hate.
I do my single target rotation and flash again, you're safe.

The problem is if a regen tic flies off at just the wrong time during the pull, even if it was 100% overheal, the mobs start heading to you and even though, on my screen, I flashed at the proper spot to avoid this, the server frequently disagrees. The best thing a tank can do at this point is run to the whm, and try to flash there.

If things are waking up and coming for you, that's usually a tank not doing his job, not flashing enough.

This may seem strange, but i always throw my Flash down before the targets reach the area of effect. By the time Flash actually goes off, The mobs i intended to hit, are in range and are thus struck by it. Specifically, if you imagine the range of Flash a a red marker, Ill hit it just before they enter the marker. Due to latency and weird positional checks combined with animation delay, they will be struck by it, however they will continue towards the healer and will often walk past me while the Target Indicator switches to me.
The same is true for Overpower, mobs can walk into its area of effect while you're swinging the axe around, and be struck. I would imagine CoS would work similarly, But i wont know for sure until my Gladiator hits 50.

[Steeled]

That's not strange at all. On a fresh pull, the mobs are going to go for you or for the healer. If you're in the middle and learn to time it right, you can flash before the mobs get to the healer.

It's not great battle design, but it's players overcoming an obstacle. Personally I'm in the habit of dropping regen as for me, that method has been unreliable.

I don't think either is a good solution. White mages are learning not to regen at certain times, but I don't think that's a good solution either. Regen should be the whm's answer to buffering HP.

[Sylve]

That's not strange at all. On a fresh pull, the mobs are going to go for you or for the healer. If you're in the middle and learn to time it right, you can flash before the mobs get to the healer.

It's not great battle design, but it's players overcoming an obstacle. Personally I'm in the habit of dropping regen as for me, that method has been unreliable.

I don't think either is a good solution. White Mages are learning not to Regen at certain times, but I don't think that's a good solution either. Regen should be the whm's answer to buffering HP.

We either work with what we have, and White Mages learn to use their spells better, or we devolve into WoW healing, where HoTs/heals generate virtually no threat, and AFAIK, zero threat (on HoTs) if applied before combat.

I like the current Regen model. Please don't change it D:

[Rage89]

just like healing on the middle of a pull. hold it till the tank gets mobs in place and pops at least a single flash. thats typically when i pop a regen then heals when needed (and as bard when i start attacking)

[forkie]

Usually I will Stoneskin my tank after every fight ends so I have time to repose if there is no blm in party. I used regen mostly on dps as most of my concentration El be in tank.

[LiadansWhisper]

As stated by the topic I'm a WHM and I love the job. I try to do my best by making sure my equipment is up to par and using all of my abilities at my disposal. But now I just don't know if I've been playing the job right. See since I got regen I usually use it while the Tank is fighting pulled trash and put stone skin on him/her. I thought that was the norm as I've never had mobs run towards me unless they were woken up from repose but after reading that thread I just don't know anymore.


I came across posts about casting regen at the wrong time or before a pull.. " my god " I thought.. as I am completely guilty of this and no one said anything. My entire Aurem Vale run yesterday I was using regen like a fool making the tanks job twice as hard and I feel bad. But then another person said they regen all the time with no issues.

I was watching the colored shapes next to the mob. And I didn't see much red. If I did I'd shroud to take away the hate. The bosses also didn't aggro me and our tank said the run was smooth. So really I'm confused and hoping someone can provide so enlightenment. I'd rather break the habit now than later.

Alright. Here's how it works.

So. We have all these classes, right? And when someone hits a hostile mob, the mob notices (you'd notice if you were getting punched in the face, right?). And they have a little table in Angry Monster Land that has everyone who has their attention on it. Now, mobs are smart. They notice that you - miss glowy-hands - are making the tank's health not go away. Being smart mobs, this will eventually get their attention. Lucky for you, the tank has abilities that hurt a lot more than your heals should. When the tank goes through his rotation, he should be convincing that mob that he is the biggest, baddest dude around and if the mob doesn't kill him, the tank will eat the mob. He's WAY more important and threatening than you are. Pay no attention to the person in the back of the room waving her hands around!

But - and this is a big but - you only get on the mob's "attention" table (or "threat table" as it has been called) by doing something.

So, there are two kinds of threat - direct threat (you did something) and proximity threat (they noticed you were nearby). Direct threat is incurred whenever you, or anyone else, uses their abilities. How much it makes the mob notice you varies from ability to ability. Tanks have abilities that are VERY threatening to most mobs. DPS have abilities that CAN be very threatening to a mob (for instance, a BLM whose Fireball crits while they have 3 stacks of Astral Fire), but normally are not anywhere near as threatening as the tank's abilities. And then there's healing - when you heal the tank, the mob notices. Your healing spells build threat on the mob's threat table because the mob isn't stupid - it knows you're healing.

Proximity threat is weak. The moment a mob notices that you're nearby, you're on the proximity threat table. Here's the thing, though - when a DPS uses an ability on a mob, they incur threat on ONLY the mob (or mobs) they have damaged. When a tank uses an ability on a mob, they incur threat ONLY on the mob (or mobs) they have damaged. There are some exceptions - Flash deals no damage, but builds threat on mobs, and, later on, blinds them (which also pisses them off at the tank even more). But for you, as a healer, the problem is that when you use a healing spell - whether it be Cure, Regen, or any other healing spell - you incur threat on every single mob involved in the pull. And if they only have proximity threat on the tank, they will immediately turn and come after you, because you have direct threat on them (which outweighs proximity threat).

Now, in many games, overhealing does not count as "actual healing" and thus incurs no threat. WoW, Rift, and SWTOR are like this. In Final Fantasy, however, overhealing counts as much towards threat as actual healing. So when your Regen is ticking on that tank, it is as if you are restoring actual health and you incur threat accordingly. This, incidentally, is also why Medica generates so much threat - because it counts all the actual healing you do to the party, as well as all of the overhealing you do. Which is a lot. And tends to rip mobs right off the tanks.

There is nothing wrong with using Regen on the tank. However, my advice to you is to save Regen for pulls where there are multiple mobs on the tank. It's a great buffer. Make sure not to reapply Regen when there's only one mob left, and when that mob dies, re-Stoneskin the tank. When the tank pulls the next pack, sit on your hands for a few seconds to give him a lead on threat, then go into your normally healing priority (Regen, Cure, Cure II, whatever). The Stoneskin you give him should buffer his health enough that you don't have to start healing immediately, and thus are less likely to incur threat on the mobs.