The definitive WAR answer STR vs VIT... and stat caps

[Tronic]

The 25% damage debuff from Defiance would negate any real advantage afforded by the higher potency of Inner Beast. You're turning what is a 300 potency attack into the equivalent of a 225 potency attack. Since it's only available once every 24 GCDs and the average base potency per GCD for non-Defiance WAR is 213.85, all that you're affording yourself is an additional .464 potency per GCD.

Inner beast, like the super useful steel cyclone, ignores the defiance damage debuff, and does 300 attack potency damage straight out.

Flash, from a long term DPS/enmity standpoint, not just free; because it costs no TP, it actually provides a net gain of 50 TP per GCD, which extends your effective resource time 3.75 GCDs. Every time you use Flash, you're buying yourself more than an entire Halone combo's worth of net TP. Each use of Overpower provides a drain of over ~7 GCDs worth of single target TP consumption. When the total burn time from full to resource dry is ~76 for each, Overpower consumes ~9% of your time to deal optimal DPS every time you use it. Using Overpower even *once* has a massive detrimental effect upon your ability to deal damage. Unless you have regular TP recovery periods, it's going to screw you over hard.

Aha! So might I imply from this that you're finally warming up to my idea of having flash as a cross class skill? ^_^

[Kitru]

Inner beast, like the super useful steel cyclone, ignores the defiance damage debuff, and does 300 attack potency damage straight out.

Never noticed that. With that taken into account, you're still only managing a 3.59 increase in base potency.

Aha! So might I imply from this that you're finally warming up to my idea of having flash as a cross class skill? ^_^

No. Flash on a WAR is, as far as I'm concerned, as waste: you simply can't use it often enough thanks to the highly limited mp pool and intelligent use of Overpower (and Berserk, if you're worried about Pacification) allows you to mollify the problems with Overpower enough that it's not a major concern.

Using 1-2 Overpowers is not going to completely and utterly demolish your resource management; the costs incurred by limited usage are well within the ability of you to recover from in the enforced downtime all of the primal fights and most bosses have as part of their mechanics. It's only when you use Overpower *unwisely*, generally in the ways that are often described to make it seem like WAR has some overwhelming AoE damage/enmity advantage, that Overpower screws you over. Rather than comparing the use of Overpower to Flash over a 10-15 second time frame, compare it over a 2 minute time frame. If you use Overpower in such a way that you're still capable of attacking for that entire time frame, Flash + CoS and Overpower are going to achieve rough parity on enmity and damage.

A WAR doesn't need Flash to AoE tank effectively; it just needs to know how to use Overpower rather than spamming it freely like PLDs do with Flash.

P.S. You would be inferring my meaning or intent from a message, not implying it; if what you were inferring were true, I would have been implying it. Basically, you infer something that someone else implied.

[Tronic]

No. Flash on a WAR is, as far as I'm concerned, as waste:

You'll join the dark side one day.

P.S. You would be inferring my meaning or intent from a message, not implying it; if what you were inferring were true, I would have been implying it. Basically, you infer something that someone else implied.

Ah, yes, I should've said infer.

[Ninjiitstu]

No. Flash on a WAR is, as far as I'm concerned, as waste:

What the hell are you talking about? Could you please, PLEASE, step foot in coils before you give advice on what is needed or not needed.

Flash is instant hate, which is why it is good for warrior. When you have multiple drop in adds spread out in a small space that can aoe 90% of your groups health, you NEED flash.

Your math is great and all, but its based soley on paper. Try some endgame content before you give advice to people. Most of the WAR's that come to these boards can do dungeons fine. They want advice on builds specifically for HM Primals, and Coils. If you don't have experience in those, you should refrain to comment. You are only hurting, not helping, in this instance.

[Kitru]

Your math is great and all, but its based soley on paper. Try some endgame content before you give advice to people. Most of the WAR's that come to these boards can do dungeons fine. They want advice on builds specifically for HM Primals, and Coils. If you don't have experience in those, you should refrain to comment. You are only hurting, not helping, in this instance.

First, it's based upon my practical experiences in everything *except* for Coil of Bahamut (I've done everything but that), and I've never made any claim about what is best for anything beyond that. Furthermore, concerning Flash as it applies to being used by a WAR, I refer to personal opinion. I posit my reasons but that's as far as I go. I specifically said "as far as I'm concerned". That's not claiming it as fact; it's personal opinion.

Secondly, you've brought up a single case where Flash is actually effectively required (and I don't have any experience to refute it, so I won't bother). People have also brought up a single case where Provoke is effectively required (there's a boss in Coil that requires a tank swap, afaik). Neither of these change my opinion of Flash or Provoke: I will not use either of them outside of the *specific* fights where they are required. I'll drop Awareness and pick up the single requisite ability before swapping back after the fight.

I do not claim that I will *never* use Flash or Provoke, but, barring the specific situations that require it, I'm not going to use it because, outside of those *very* specific circumstances, they take up space that could be occupied by something I'll actually use.

[Ninjiitstu]

First, it's based upon my practical experiences in everything *except* for Coil of Bahamut (I've done everything but that), and I've never made any claim about what is best for anything beyond that. Furthermore, concerning Flash as it applies to being used by a WAR, I refer to personal opinion. I posit my reasons but that's as far as I go. I specifically said "as far as I'm concerned". That's not claiming it as fact; it's personal opinion.

You are correct. I could make a argument that Provoke is usable outside of coils as well ( two bosses require tank swaps in coils, Turn 2 and Turn 5 ). Flash is needed for Turn 4.

On the other hand, what else would you use in place of them? It isn't like there is a whole lot of superior options that you can just throw in.

[Junk4Brains]

-snip -

Feel this thread is getting a bit derailed from its original point so I've posted my reply here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...vention-Thread